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Recording police contacts

motowolf said:
Just admit your errors, explain and apologize. Almost always works. It does a disservice to citizens to advise them to record conversations. Ride hard, MW

dont admit your errors, dont explain, dont apologize. be as vague as possible in answering questions. LEO's dont joke around or make smalltalk for no reason. They are always trying to screw you for something. I dont think anyone is advising anyone to record, but dont take the toughguy act, dont be intimidated. If you're wrong then you pay, and if not then you'll have proof.
 
Sure, go for vague. Take zero responsibility. Those are the tickets I write.

My world is almost all cops and very few are even predominately trying to screw anyone over. Being adverserial and believing you are going to out smart the cop are the biggest and most costly errors you will make in these situations.

And I did read it that he is suggesting recording police contacts.

Good luck, MW
 
it works for me. there are times where LEO's get you to admit to something they otherwise weren't sure of. I've seen it happen and that's my experience.
 
Most cops audio record their encounters anyhow, so it shouldn't be an issue if the cicilian records too. Any objection would tend to make me think that the police have something to hide. (I am purely talking about during a traffic stop)

I also agree that I'd be a little apprehensive (to say the least) if I made a traffic stop on a moto and on approach I see the rider messing around feverishly with something in his tank bag.
 
Dean129 said:
Most cops audio record their encounters anyhow, so it shouldn't be an issue if the cicilian records too.



It is if the "civilian's" tape doesn't agree with what the cop said was on his tape before he erased it.
 
I've known quite a few cops. There are a few that are out to get you, and you never know.
 
Any copper who is trying to screw people over should take off the badge and walk away. I apologize for those sad souls. Most cops are not those people. Brash is correct in advising you have the right to tape (audio/video) police contacts in public places. I just caution not to turn a contact that may have been positive into a confrontation by focussing on the worst case scenerio. Cheers, MW
 
(bump due to new thread about this)

My guess is that if police made an Issue of this, it would not be on the grounds of privacy but of "interference". Brash, the cases you cite don't address this - e.g. if it is "interfering" to record your or your friends' conversation with police, or at what point it becomes so.
 
I answered this question on page 2 of that thread, in part:
If the OP gave up the tape voluntarily, s/he won't have much to go on. If s/he gave it up becasue they felt coerced at the time; the Sgt. On scene (the one that smoothed everything out) would have been the best one to address this with, at the time.

If an officer wants to take anything from you against your will, do not resist, but verbally ensure it is very clear to them that you are not giving it up willingly and you are merely submitting to their legal authority and/or are being compelled to do so as a result of their coercion. Demand a written receipt and case number. Ask for the code section or ordinance that gives them the authority to take it. Ask for the name and phone number of their Watch Commander. Go directly to the station and arrange to meet with the Watch Commander to ask when the item(s) will be returned and if it was not provided to you on the scene, ask under what authority the item(s) were taken/confiscated, without your consent.

Options now?
1) Demand the return of the items (tapes) and an apology from the officer and/or their supervisor, and/or The Chief (good luck).
2) Demand the immediate return of or a written receipt for the items.
3) File a formal complaint with the agency in writing.
3) File a lawsuit for violation of civil rights.
4) All of the above.
5) None of the above.


This is the best information in which I had to learn MYSELF!!! East Bay Regional Park Police took my tape and I told the Officer I didn't want to give it to him and he said I have too...so I complied but then filed a complaint and then a hearing then an apology letter sent to me and I haven't heard from that Officer again...in fact his partner was sending out threats to other riders to inform me that he is looking for me.

One year later Concord PD took my tape (It was new and blank) and let us all go but I filed a complaint and they said come back in one year...I figure I'll let this one go due to the tape being blank. LOL I have no idea why it was blank or new for that...

Foot note to other BARFers keep in mind these LEOs here on BARF are riders and friends within our community who take time out of their day to help or to inform us non-leos. :thumbup
 
Sorry to revive such an old thread, but is this info about recording audio/video when pulled over by a LEO still valid in 2014? As in, legal to record with helmet cam without notifying or asking for permission?

Not looking to be devious, just bought my first action cam for dash cam use and learning the ins and outs of the whole thing.

Thanks!
 
1) Law enforcement is allowed to record a conversation without your knowledge or permission, so in that case only "1 party" needs to "consent." (Which in that case, would be law enforcement). In the State of California... that is.

1a) So quit using "the cops have cameras so I can record a conversation too" as justification.

2) The laws regarding when a private citizen can and cannot record are based on reasonable expectations of privacy. In general, conversations in public do not meet that criteria and you are free to record. There very well could be some conversations, even in public, where that could be argued against in court and you could lose.

2a) You can record your conversation with law enforcement in the State of California because the law enforcement Officer has, legally, no expectation of privacy, therefor it only requires "one party" to consent (which in this case would be YOU) and thus, the recording is okay. There are some states where this is not legal, but in California it absolutely is. However, if you were to, say, call a local Police Department and unknowingly record that conversation -- that could be used as a form of wire-tapping or unlawful recording. That is a conversation which would REASONABLY be considered private. If not, every time a citizen called the cops we'd be allowed -- and it'd be expected -- that we would go tell everyone in the world all of the confidential shit we learned or were told. Obviously that's not the case.

3) In most cases, what you record on you GoPro while riding on public roads -- including acts of road range or conversations through open windows to drivers etc, etc, etc. is not going to be considered reasonably private and thus, free to record at any time.

.
 
i see no reason legal or not, to not record (video and/or audio) all enteractions with any/all Leo's. and any "others" you may encounter.

my memory is not the best. and so many times i just wished i could remember the name of the pretty girl i just met.

.
 
More and more LEOs routinely record certain public interactions. There's a nifty little lapel-mounted camera that when a button is pressed saves the prior 30 seconds and everything forward. Departments that use these cameras can have policies that require they be turned on in certain circumstances. Look for more of this in the future.

The mandatory recording of many types of interactions with LEOs serves both the law abiding public and professional law enforcement.
 
Any copper who is trying to screw people over should take off the badge and walk away. I apologize for those sad souls. Most cops are not those people. Brash is correct in advising you have the right to tape (audio/video) police contacts in public places. I just caution not to turn a contact that may have been positive into a confrontation by focusing on the worst case scenario. Cheers, MW

+1. 99% of the time "you're busted", you know why. Get into a pissing contest and make it worse for yourself. I prefer to remain respectful, courteous, and quiet, and not give the officer a reason to think I'm a dick. It gives the officer options. Go ahead and record, you're provably taking some of those options off the table.

I've yet to have an "encounter" where I felt prosecution paranoia as if was personal, or I was singled out: I have a hard time wrapping my head around the adversarial attitudes.

Perhaps I'm being naive but it seems to me that mindset has its own consequences, long term.
 
I think it is funny personally when people aim a smart phone at me and think they are being sly and filming me. I also find it amusing when someone says they "are filming me", I just tell them "you are being filmed too". Does not change how I treat them but it GUARANTEES I will NOT give them any break and I will stack every violation onto the ticket. By the way what is up with trying to revive an Extremely ancient thread.
 
no by no thoughts was i trying to start any problem with anybody, let alone a leo.
he11 last "contact" i had (sorry no video at 11:00) both he and i laught a bit, he let me go with just a verbal warning to slow down. i shook his hand and give him a very greatfull thank you.
i was going a bit too fast. no lie, i did not even try to talk my way out of it.

but in the past i wish i had a cam on me or the rig, cage, truck, bike.:wow

.
 
Police work BC and BCC (Before Cameras and way Before Cell-phone Cameras) really was a lot of fun.... My hats off to the LEOs out there today.

I have no doubt in my little pea-brain that I would be in IA weekly for my bad attitude with the public. I am guessing that "shit-head" and "dumb-ass" are no longer proper ways to address the public.

We even use to be able to say Adam Henry and HUA over the radio... Example, "10-8 driver HUA" short, sweet and to the point disposition of a traffic stop.
 
Relevant: here are two Department of Justice letters of interest in §1983 (abusing civil liberties under color of law) actions where police tried to stop or delete recording, and the police & city tried to say they weren't liable.

The DoJ said yes they are, regardless of state law, and furthermore that the police were *personally* liable (aka no "qualified immunity") because it was so clearly established.

Garcia case:
DoJ letter
- context: complaint city/police motion to dismiss

Sharp case:
Sharp DoJ letter
- good commentary

Alvarez case (Illinois law struck down):
ruling
Volokh law blog commentary
oral argument


Of course, as OP mentioned, that doesn't mean the police have to wait for you to dig it out etc (this is why you should start camera rolling as soon as you come in contact). And to the best of my knowledge the cases have only talked about open recording, not secret; AFAIK legality of secret recording of police encounters hasn't yet been settled in the courts.
 
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