• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

replica vintage

F

friday

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Location
new zealand
Moto(s)
FLH Harley
what is the law surrounding replica vintage bikes in USA ?
I've read thru DMV code sections to try get an idea

restoration needs repop parts of every piece of a bike, but surely there is a line drawn some where. If brand spanking new cases are used, Id expect the transfer of genuine stamp from old cases to new cases, but if there was no original cases to begin with, Id expect that to be in the back street 'chop shop' arena.

Or at least a brand new vehicle with no brand new vehicle testing, epa etc and an un-authorized stamping.

and no, I'm not asking for a 'friend' , more of an observation
 
link doesn't work for me. My idea of special construction would be the obvious Harley softail clones of the early 1990s but they would have a DMV riveted plate on the frame and matching engine.
my guess is that those bikes died off because of EPA regulations.

what Im on about is a replica which had no frame numbers then, and an engine stamp that is theoretically "correct", but the cases are definitely brand new.
 
Last edited:
No, fresh from the oven, falling out of casting molds
 

Attachments

  • crocker pattern 8 - Copy.jpg
    crocker pattern 8 - Copy.jpg
    51.1 KB · Views: 42
Last edited:
motor vehicle departments, in CA at least, don't really care if something is genuinely old.

your post above in #3 and the casting pictures would still fall under CA "special construction" which is mostly designed to ensure the vehicle constituent parts aren't stolen. even for 4 wheeled vehicles, this is largely the case. CA SB100 is a law that, and i'm hugely simplifying here, allows a completely scratch built vehicle (kit car, custom vehicle pulled out of your imagination, pile of rusty parts you pulled out of a field etc etc) to be registered for street use without emissions testing at all so long as it "looks like" something old enough to be smog exempt with barely more than a verifiction that the vehicle has functioning brakes and head/taillights and signals.. this is one way that so many cobra replicas are running around CA. This kind of stuff varies tremendously by state. there was a time that CA was one of the easier states to do this kind of stuff in.

a high level view of how to do this with assorted stock motorcycle parts can be found here. if one were casting their own engine, i would expect pictures of that process would be needed to convince Johnny Law and the gang that the engine isn't stolen.

the above is all for the hobbyist btw. it doesn't go for the boutique manufacturers and they can indeed get nailed with federal and state requirements. jessee james and his chopper company in long beach being a famous example. i think orang county choppers got in some trouble too.
 
Last edited:
how does this work?

the stamp is 42.80.400, the Edison Splitdorf RM magneto, Linkert carb and Splitdorf generator are the only antique parts.
every piece of this bike is new

there were no bikes built in 1942, 80" was never an option and 400 series is fictional.
there is no frame number.
this bike has a plate but unknown if it actually belongs to this bike.

on another forum someone mentioned a "blue tag", I dont know what that is, I tried a search
 

Attachments

  • Phonepictures162.jpg
    Phonepictures162.jpg
    115.9 KB · Views: 34
Last edited:
blue tag = assigned VIN from the CHP

that bike would end up as special construction i'd guess once all the hoops have been jumped through. how exactly you'd arrive there i don't know. i did have a 70s honda goldwing with a blue tag near where the engine number should have been, the engine number pad being blank (a replacement engine i assumed, who knows) CHP can assign an engine number and a VIN to that bike. Many people like to avoid the blue tags because they are kinda ugly, and having a "SPCNS" on your title instead of honda/kawak/harley etc is somehow less valuable?

VIN tags can be assigned for lots of reasons too, sometimes the orivginal numbers are obliterated intentionally or accidentally. if you can verify everything is otherwise legal, CHP issues a new tag and life goes on

attachment.php


is this bike trying to be passed off as an authentic old bike?
 
Last edited:
the seat mechanism only ever existed on paper, similar to typical desk lamp.
a straight tail light and a cast tool box never made it to production
 

Attachments

  • schacht seat lever.jpg
    schacht seat lever.jpg
    57.8 KB · Views: 41
  • 2020-12-10 (2).jpg
    2020-12-10 (2).jpg
    54.5 KB · Views: 38
I dont spose anyone noticed the stack of cases ?

All vintage bikes needs repop parts supply but where is the line drawn?
I cant open DMV pages , anything I have read about code sections is online
 
I'n not sure if my advise will help, but here is how I break down DMV and CHP issues...

The DMV is only interested in assessing a value so that they can collect taxes. They want to see a declared value documented with a title, bill of sale, or receipts.

The CHP only cares if something is stolen or not stolen. They also want to see titles, bills of sale, and receipts, but only to show ownership. If a VIN# or engine number is missing they will attach one for you (blue tag). If a VIN# or engine number is missing, they will only assume that its been illegally tampered with if it appears to have been illegally tampered with. They are okay with frames and engines with no numbers. They are aware that engine cases get replaced and that people (like me) build their own frames.

Neither agency cares about "vintage", "historic", or any other labels you want to put on the vehicle.

This is only my $0.02... but I have had many conversations with both DMV agents and CHP inspection officers about all types of odd scenarios like this.
 
One last thought. I'm not a lawyer, however I would think if someone is representing a reproduction vehicle as an authentic "historic" vehicle, that could be considered fraud and would likely be contested in civil court. Not really a DMV or CHP issue.
 
Julian, thanks for sharing your first hand experiences. :thumbup
 
I a Rembrandt goes to auction, the experts are brought in to check signature, brush strokes etc If a "vintage" bike goes to auction, no such equivalent. A brand new bike is a brand new bike and fake patina is intentional. from what Ive read a stamp has to be assigned by DMV. there's a loop hole there some where if this stuff is going on. its BS
 
there is nothing wrong with custom frames or after market. all vintage bikes need repop parts. an instant real McCoy vintage that was cast last week is not a genuine article and should not be promoted as 80 years old.
In Argentina there are complete 1916 - 1924 Indian Power Plus, can be bought, great work and authentic in appearance. They are clearly sold as repop
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top