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Rich Oliver AMA 250GP champ Q & A

Alexey said:
With regard to repositioning the wrist between braking and opening the gas, no, I don't normally do that. Before going out for a session, I tend to place my wrist such that I can open it fully comfortably (without to much downward extension). Then, provided my brake lever is adjusted properly, I'm able to grab it with the right amount portion of my finger when the throttle is shut. I've learned to pay attention to how my ergos are set up as I've had a world of difference in ease of riding the bike and arm pump issues caused by millimeters of mis-adjustment. When I'm riding a new bike or one that I just did some work to, getting all the hand and foot controls dialed in is one of my first priorities.

Another thing I used to neglect that goes hand-in-hand with the ergos is the throttle cable slack. Obviously you don't want it so that it never closes fully, but other than that, I try to eliminate as much slack as possible in order to get that instantaneous smooth response midcorner as I begin to crack it open. This reduces the final wrist extension as well of course.

As you say throttle set up is critical, funny how as you become a better rider you start getting more picky about how the throttle works. On my 250 Robert (my mechanic) would lube the throttle every couple days, and the slack was at 0. Have you ever thought about the positive stop in a throttle housing, some bikes just have the return cable as the stop, and that makes it squishy feeling when you close it. I yanked that off my Yamaha superbike and had them put a positive stop throttle on it. That change had to go all the way to Japan for approval, no rider had ever done it! I liked it better because you always knew how much rotation you had before you picked up the power, and on that you had about 100hp at 1/8th throttle! Like this bike in the pic!

Thanks
RO

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Rich Oliver said:
The question is, after you release the brakes do you reposition your hand further around (forward on the grip) to get a good wrist position for throttle opening.

Thanks,
RO

Lately, I have been thinking a lot about throttle position. A while back, when I was making a conscious effort to get a proper hold of the throttle, I was under the impression I was repositioning before reaching for the front brake.

You mentioned that you do it after braking. While the throttle is closed and you are finished braking, you reposition your hand so you could easily rotate the throttle all the way open. I have another track day coming up soon so I will give it some thought again. But when I reflect back, I think I am doing it after I close the but before I start to apply the front brake.

Do you believe repositioning your hand before braking could make it more difficult to hold my body back under heavy braking? Perhaps keeping my palms lower and behind the grips is a better body position while braking. I could then reposition my grip after releasing the brake.
 
Wrong Way said:
Lately, I have been thinking a lot about throttle position. A while back, when I was making a conscious effort to get a proper hold of the throttle, I was under the impression I was repositioning before reaching for the front brake.

You mentioned that you do it after braking. While the throttle is closed and you are finished braking, you reposition your hand so you could easily rotate the throttle all the way open. I have another track day coming up soon so I will give it some thought again. But when I reflect back, I think I am doing it after I close the but before I start to apply the front brake.

Do you believe repositioning your hand before braking could make it more difficult to hold my body back under heavy braking? Perhaps keeping my palms lower and behind the grips is a better body position while braking. I could then reposition my grip after releasing the brake.

Yeah, you hit on it, it's the weight of your body through your arms and hands that makes it hard to have your wrist forward while braking. That's cool your going to try it out next time! Great comments, thanks. I hope others out there are reading this, cause you're hitting on the right points as we evolve the conversation,
RO
 
Rich Oliver said:
Yeah, you hit on it, it's the weight of your body through your arms and hands that makes it hard to have your wrist forward while braking. That's cool your going to try it out next time! Great comments, thanks. I hope others out there are reading this, cause you're hitting on the right points as we evolve the conversation,
RO
Hmm, that's interesting. I've been trying to offload my wrists under braking as much as possible by anchoring against the back of the tank and pegs (works your lower back). I've had a tough time riding bikes with smallish tanks for that reason. If I keep my weight off my wrists under hard braking, I get much better feel from the front and I'm able to do more with the brake and the throttle without having to reposition my hand.
 
NEW TOPIC?

Alexey said:
Hmm, that's interesting. I've been trying to offload my wrists under braking as much as possible by anchoring against the back of the tank and pegs (works your lower back). I've had a tough time riding bikes with smallish tanks for that reason. If I keep my weight off my wrists under hard braking, I get much better feel from the front and I'm able to do more with the brake and the throttle without having to reposition my hand.

OK BARFERS,

How about the next subject: Do you let your competitors into your work area, or do you work in private? And further, do you socialize with them at the track, or just away from the track, or never?

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I'm not all that fast, so I don't mind sharing thoughts with people and helping out my "competitors". I know it goes against the spirit of balls-to-the-walls amature 600 racing, but whatever. I like it.
 
Alexey said:
I'm not all that fast, so I don't mind sharing thoughts with people and helping out my "competitors". I know it goes against the spirit of balls-to-the-walls amature 600 racing, but whatever. I like it.

So you are saying it depends on how seriously you are taking the event?

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Rich Oliver said:
So you are saying it depends on how seriously you are taking the event?
I'd say it depends on what you want to get out of it. Since I'm not trying to build a career out of it, I'm primarily trying to beat my competitors without mental tricks. That's just my own game. I realize I may sometimes stack the odds against myself, but I don't think it happens very often at my level.
 
Alexey said:
I'd say it depends on what you want to get out of it. Since I'm not trying to build a career out of it, I'm primarily trying to beat my competitors without mental tricks. That's just my own game. I realize I may sometimes stack the odds against myself, but I don't think it happens very often at my level.

OK, well let's open this up to some other comments and see where it leads us........there have got to be other BARF members out there than just us 3 who want to chime in. I thought this site had thousands of members?! Were are you guys?????

Maybe money to win has something to do with it?

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Last edited:
Hi Rich,

Thank you for taking the time to give back to the community via this FORUM and through your schools. A friend who does 50+ trackdays a year and is pretty fast said "after attending the Rich Oliver Mystry School, everything changed for me". Nice feedback, huh?

I always wondered why you never ended up in Europe on the 250 bikes. My guess is lack of European sponsorship, un-familiarity with the race teams and American riders and your age relative to the crop of 125cc-250cc grids.

Did you in fact have a shot at a reasonable opportunity there?
 
And to keep your earlier thread questions going -

I use 1 finger on the brakes for street riding (Aprilia with Brembo's allow that), two fingers for dirt riding, and 1 or 2 for the track dependant on the turn. I also use four fingers to change my wrist position when my hand is getting numb.

As I have picked up my speed on the track and things happen faster, I have noticed that when I transition from braking (with some trail braking) I don't feel so comfortable to change the wrist position as I am already in the process of leaning it over. When I accelerate out of the turn it's too late and I realize my wrist is either at an angle that creates more fatigue or I am not using the full range of the throttle.

On a 636 you need all 100% of the throttle - so I am about to add a quick turn throttle add-on to see how that works.
 
NorCal Factory said:
Hi Rich,

Thank you for taking the time to give back to the community via this FORUM and through your schools. A friend who does 50+ trackdays a year and is pretty fast said "after attending the Rich Oliver Mystry School, everything changed for me". Nice feedback, huh?

I always wondered why you never ended up in Europe on the 250 bikes. My guess is lack of European sponsorship, un-familiarity with the race teams and American riders and your age relative to the crop of 125cc-250cc grids.

Did you in fact have a shot at a reasonable opportunity there?

Yes, all of the above, but mostly no large sponsor to bring to a team, in the millions of dollars!
 
NorCal Factory said:
And to keep your earlier thread questions going -

I use 1 finger on the brakes for street riding (Aprilia with Brembo's allow that), two fingers for dirt riding, and 1 or 2 for the track dependant on the turn. I also use four fingers to change my wrist position when my hand is getting numb.

As I have picked up my speed on the track and things happen faster, I have noticed that when I transition from braking (with some trail braking) I don't feel so comfortable to change the wrist position as I am already in the process of leaning it over. When I accelerate out of the turn it's too late and I realize my wrist is either at an angle that creates more fatigue or I am not using the full range of the throttle.

On a 636 you need all 100% of the throttle - so I am about to add a quick turn throttle add-on to see how that works.

Sounds good, just note that the quicker the turn the quicker the highside! We used quick turn on our 600's also when I rode for Yamaha, because of the limited low end power.

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Why call it the Mystery School?
I've been asked these questions over and over, so I thought I would just write down the answers and post them up here! For you road guys and track day guys, read this! And thanks for all the interest in our programs,
RO

WHY IS IT CALLED THE MYSTERY SCHOOL?

Rich Oliver’s Mystery School is named so for two reasons, one new and one old.

The new reason is that in professional motorcycle racing, no one will help you that really knows how to win the class you race. They may talk to you and be friendly, but they really don’t want to help you get better, just so you can go out and beat them!

So in our school we actually pass down the ideas and drills that did made me a better rider over my 25 year career, and we distill down all the this information into a fine tuned program that gives quick results, revealing to our students the best way to go about improving their riding skills as efficiently as possible.

The old reason it’s called the Mystery School is that there used to really be “Mystery Schools” in the ancient past, and in these schools the chosen few would be taught things like mathematics, astronomy, reading, writing, philosophy, etc. But, you had to be a special person from a royal family or a special blood line to get the information, the regular riff raff peasants stayed ignorant in these areas of learning. I thought that the idea of a special learning center applied to this school as well. The difference between the ancient schools and ours is we don’t discriminate; all you have to do is love riding motorcycles and want to improve! So that’s why I named it the Mystery School.


HOW WILL LEARNING TO SLIDE ON THE DIRT HELP MY STREET RIDING OR ROAD RACING?

OK, this is the big question that I always get asked, and at first I wondered how anyone could not understand the benefits of learning improved bike control by sliding a mini bike on the dirt! You see the reason you can go fast on the track is because you really understand how the motorcycle works at its limit. That limit is way beyond having your tires in perfect contact and grip with the pavement! You’re never going to win riding like that! A real pro rider is always out of shape to some degree, pushing his machine way beyond the “hooked up” stage, and is backing into corners on the brakes, losing the front in the corners and saving it, power sliding the rear tire off the corners, etc. This is real racing and the Champions are masters of this balancing act between crashing out or achieving victory. Even the riders down the finishing order are able to push their bikes this hard. So if you’ve ever gotten a scare when your bike goes sideways, you may think that’s it, I can’t go any faster. Wrong, that’s just the starting point to a fast lap!

Look, it’s not my idea to ride in the dirt to get better; you’ve got to credit Kenny Roberts as the biggest influence in this area. It’s the main method he insisted his team riders’ use for bike control practice, and many other top riders from all types of racing would come do the same at his 160 acre ranch near Modesto, CA. Don’t know much about World Champion Kenny Roberts? Well let’s just say he was the greatest rider of his time both on dirt track and pavement, and I was lucky enough to ride for him for two years. Did it work, hell yes! I went from a top 5 rider to a Champion instantly. I raced so much better and faster it was unbelievable!


BUT RICH, I DON’T RACE OR TRACK RIDE, I JUST RIDE ON THE STREET, HOW WILL THIS HELP OUT THERE?

Have you ever had a car pull out in front of you! Have you ever had to ride in the rain! Got your bike out of shape over the railroad tracks, paint lines, whatever. See, you’ve got to have some built in reflexes when you get in those situations, and those reflexes better be the right ones! The ones you learn here. The last thing you need is to panic, tighten up and do nothing to save the situation and crash your nice shiny street bike all up! You could have saved it in most cases if you did the RIGHT thing instead of the WRONG thing or NOTHING! These riders are the ones who NEED to know how a bike really works when sliding more than anyone!

So think about it, you practice on a Yamaha TT-R125 mini bike on the dirt, with expert instruction by the owner of the school, and by the way I’m a very experience teacher now with hundred of improved and satisfied students. This tough TT-R can be dropped, crashed, flipped, whatever. Pick it up and keep going because you only crashed at 15 mph and you and the bike are fine! Ride 5-6 hours a day and make millions of mistakes, but guess what, you’ve learned so much and gotten so much better its unbelievable!

Massively improved throttle control, better body position control and understanding of your movements, braking abilities skyrocket, and yes, you will learn to back it in sideways! How about power slides under perfect control, line choice, starting technique, gearshift timing, vision improvement, diet and heath discussion, a great stretching routine, and don’t forget a home made healthy lunch at my kitchen table made by my wife Karin, who by the way, is fast on a TT-R so watch out!


WHY SHOULD I SPEND MONEY ON MY EDUCATION?

Well why not, have you ever thought about yourself, you’re the MOST important part of the bike. For what you would spend on an exhaust system or a few tires you can improve the most vital part of the bike-rider equation, YOU! Think of the money you can save and bodily damage you can avoid when you don't have that crash, and think of the enjoyment you will bring to your riding the rest of your life by KNOWING how to really control the bike correctly. Education does not wear out or go out of style, it’s with you forever! Your money is well spent.

All content ©Rich Oliver Racing, Inc. 2001-2007. No images or text may be reproduced, distributed or sold.


__________________
Rich Oliver
Rich Oliver's Mystery School
Auberry, CA
www.richoliver.net

3138927-2005dates.jpg
 
Rich Oliver said:
The question is, after you release the brakes do you reposition your hand further around (forward on the grip) to get a good wrist position for throttle opening. If you watch video closely you will see many of the top roadracers do this. I teach this in my school, as it gives full range of wrist motion, and of course throttle rotation, from the hand. Sometimes if you release the brake and then try to open the throttle with the same grip position you have to use your wrist quite low, or far down, and this tends to drop your shoulder and arm down out of proper position, depending on the type of throttle. Some quick turn throttles are so short in rotation that you can get away with this, but you lose feel and sensitivity with such an abrupt throttle.

On the Yamaha factory team we had various throttles to chose from, and I liked the long turn one, especially after I high sided a few times with the quick turn!

What do you guys think about repositioning your hand after braking?

Thanks,
RO

I've tried to reposition a lot of the time, but I haven't quite figured out how to add it to everything else I am concentrating on as I am settin up, downshifting, braking, trailing in and turning. I have found that I really do like the quick throttles as I don't have to reposition pretty much at all, which lets me concentrate on being smooth, loose on the bars (which gains me a bit more front end feel) and not rushing getting back on the throttle, as I seem like I do with a normal-turn throttle. Repositioning the lever has helped as well. Plus the risk of high-siding myself to the moon also contributes to the effort to stay smooth . :laughing

So how do you add extra items in the pre-turn seconds or work to set up earlier and earlier. Is there a specific drill you run through?
 
I can't wait for June to take your school.. Getting those old dirt bike skillz shined up a little will only help with the street riding and new found passion of riding my Motard.

Thanks Kenny for inventing it.. and Rich for bringing it to us mere mortals. :thumbup

:smoking
 
Rich Oliver said:

Maybe money to win has something to do with it?

Bingo. I'm more than happy to talk to other guys at the track, lend a helping hand, even offer my bike sometimes, but I don't lead guys around too often unless they specifically ask for it. In fact, if I'm riding with a guy I know is a competitor I'll make it a habit to follow for a bit, try and pass, and then move over to let him back by so he doesn't get a clean view of me.

On another subject, it turns out my girlfriend and I have a friend who married a Mr. Roth. Seems like a good guy, and suprise suprise, it turns out he rode for you in the late 90's, huh?

Any embarrasing stories I can leverage at the next party?
 
joe said:
Bingo. I'm more than happy to talk to other guys at the track, lend a helping hand, even offer my bike sometimes, but I don't lead guys around too often unless they specifically ask for it. In fact, if I'm riding with a guy I know is a competitor I'll make it a habit to follow for a bit, try and pass, and then move over to let him back by so he doesn't get a clean view of me.

On another subject, it turns out my girlfriend and I have a friend who married a Mr. Roth. Seems like a good guy, and suprise suprise, it turns out he rode for you in the late 90's, huh?

Any embarrasing stories I can leverage at the next party?

YES, Jason Roth was a young up and coming rider at the time, and he was a great teammate. He went to fly military aircraft last I heard so I hope he made it in. If not he will be good at something else I'm sure.

In Pro racing there are a lot of guys who try to follow you, as you mention above. I used to do the same thing, blast by and then park it, so as not to show too much. At some point you have to just ride laps, but it's always good to know who is behind you and how far back they are. One time I followed Hayden and Duhamel, who were drafting and working together on 600's @ Daytona for Supersport qualifying. They were so involved in their own thing they forgot to check back, and I was there with a huge double draft down both big straights. I got the pole! Honda was pissed but Yamaha was pretty happy about it. But that's an example of when it goes well, sometimes it bites you instead.
 
BARF TWO-DAY FUN CAMPS WITH RICH OLIVER (NOW AVAILABLE ALL YEAR LONG!)

The Mystery School announces special BARF Two-Day Fun Camps. Come ride with Rich and improve your overall skills by mastering his 2 day course. Included is your Yamaha TT-R125 flat tracker, lunch, drinks, snacks, sponsor gift bag, Mystery School hat, graduate T-shirt, prizes for best pass, best shot, and most improved student!

Learn to control a motorcycle on the dirt at a safe speed, then take all that you learn here and apply it to whatever you ride or race. It really works and helps you get the most out of your street riding, your track days and track school classes that come after.

Includes comprehensive riding drills, time trials, five lap racing, a 25 lap main event on Sunday, lectures on diet, food timing, vision enhancement, concentration improvement, and really too much to list here!

Check it out at: http://www.richoliver.net/funcampmain.html

OFFICAL BARF MEMBER DATES: Now enroll in any available spot, in any class in 2007!

CLASS SIZE MAXIMUM OF 8 IN EACH FUN CAMP

SPECIAL BARF PRICING:

Regular fee is $675, OFFICAL BARF members only $600 each. Riding gear rental, head to toe is only $40. No other discounts allowed.

To sign up we take first come first served, deposit of $350 is allowed on any credit card or by check.

Best to call 559-855-3089 to enroll and save your spot and get the special rate. Don't forget to read the following below to understand why we do it in the dirt, and how it can save your life!



WHY IS IT CALLED THE MYSTERY SCHOOL?

Rich Oliver’s Mystery School is named so for two reasons, one new and one old.

The new reason is that in professional motorcycle racing, no one will help you that really knows how to win the class you race. They may talk to you and be friendly, but they really don’t want to help you get better, just so you can go out and beat them!

So in our school we actually pass down the ideas and drills that did made me a better rider over my 25 year career, and we distill down all the this information into a fine tuned program that gives quick results, revealing to our students the best way to go about improving their riding skills as efficiently as possible.

The old reason it’s called the Mystery School is that there used to really be “Mystery Schools” in the ancient past, and in these schools the chosen few would be taught things like mathematics, astronomy, reading, writing, philosophy, etc. But, you had to be a special person from a royal family or a special blood line to get the information, the regular riff raff peasants stayed ignorant in these areas of learning. I thought that the idea of a special learning center applied to this school as well. The difference between the ancient schools and ours is we don’t discriminate; all you have to do is love riding motorcycles and want to improve! So that’s why I named it the Mystery School.


HOW WILL LEARNING TO SLIDE ON THE DIRT HELP MY STREET RIDING OR ROAD RACING?

OK, this is the big question that I always get asked, and at first I wondered how anyone could not understand the benefits of learning improved bike control by sliding a mini bike on the dirt! You see the reason you can go fast on the track is because you really understand how the motorcycle works at its limit. That limit is way beyond having your tires in perfect contact and grip with the pavement! You’re never going to win riding like that! A real pro rider is always out of shape to some degree, pushing his machine way beyond the “hooked up” stage, and is backing into corners on the brakes, losing the front in the corners and saving it, power sliding the rear tire off the corners, etc. This is real racing and the Champions are masters of this balancing act between crashing out or achieving victory. Even the riders down the finishing order are able to push their bikes this hard. So if you’ve ever gotten a scare when your bike goes sideways, you may think that’s it, I can’t go any faster. Wrong, that’s just the starting point to a fast lap!

Look, it’s not my idea to ride in the dirt to get better; you’ve got to credit Kenny Roberts as the biggest influence in this area. It’s the main method he insisted his team riders’ use for bike control practice, and many other top riders from all types of racing would come do the same at his 160 acre ranch near Modesto, CA. Don’t know much about World Champion Kenny Roberts? Well let’s just say he was the greatest rider of his time both on dirt track and pavement, and I was lucky enough to ride for him for two years. Did it work, hell yes! I went from a top 5 rider to a Champion instantly. I raced so much better and faster it was unbelievable!


BUT RICH, I DON’T RACE OR TRACK RIDE, I JUST RIDE ON THE STREET, HOW WILL THIS HELP OUT THERE?

Have you ever had a car pull out in front of you! Have you ever had to ride in the rain! Got your bike out of shape over the railroad tracks, paint lines, whatever. See, you’ve got to have some built in reflexes when you get in those situations, and those reflexes better be the right ones! The ones you learn here. The last thing you need is to panic, tighten up and do nothing to save the situation and crash your nice shiny street bike all up! You could have saved it in most cases if you did the RIGHT thing instead of the WRONG thing or NOTHING! These riders are the ones who NEED to know how a bike really works when sliding more than anyone!

So think about it, you practice on a Yamaha TT-R125 mini bike on the dirt, with expert instruction by the owner of the school, and by the way I’m a very experience teacher now with hundred of improved and satisfied students. This tough TT-R can be dropped, crashed, flipped, whatever. Pick it up and keep going because you only crashed at 15 mph and you and the bike are fine! Ride 5-6 hours a day and make millions of mistakes, but guess what, you’ve learned so much and gotten so much better its unbelievable!

Massively improved throttle control, better body position control and understanding of your movements, braking abilities skyrocket, and yes, you will learn to back it in sideways! How about power slides under perfect control, line choice, starting technique, gearshift timing, vision improvement, diet and heath discussion, a great stretching routine, and don’t forget a home made healthy lunch at my kitchen table made by my wife Karin, who by the way, is fast on a TT-R so watch out!


WHY SHOULD I SPEND MONEY ON MY EDUCATION?

Well why not, have you ever thought about yourself, you’re the MOST important part of the bike. For what you would spend on an exhaust system or a few tires you can improve the most vital part of the bike-rider equation, YOU! Think of the money you can save and bodily damage you can avoid when you don't have that crash, and think of the enjoyment you will bring to your riding the rest of your life by KNOWING how to really control the bike correctly. Education does not wear out or go out of style, it’s with you forever! Your money is well spent.

All content ©Rich Oliver Racing, Inc. 2001-2007. No images or text may be reproduced, distributed or sold.

3146132-fun2.jpg
 
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