Rider killed in West Marin [updated with criminal charges]

[Gunzen]

I hope you are kidding about this. So the next bicyclist or pedestrian that gets run over, for staying in their lane or crossing, through no fault of their own, should shoulder part of the blame for being killed by somebody else's inattention and/or driving under the influence? That just makes no sense at all.

So the next bicyclist or pedestrian that gets run over, for staying in their lane or crossing, through no fault of their own, should shoulder part of the blame for being killed by somebody else's inattention and/or driving under the influence?

what? that isn't at all what I am saying.

dude, don't put words in my mouth. bottom line, bikes are more dangerous and fatality rates in collisions are greater.

I don't think in any way, shape or form he deserved this, or is at fault. but the bottom line is, if this were two cars and he was belted, he probably would have survived, or had more protection.

I am including myself in this, but two cars hitting at 40 can still kill you, but cars are more visible and you can react more aggressively.

if you are gonna put words in my mouth I cannot argue with you.

he took the risk and got burned. and it is horrible. and it is what I worry about when I am not riding. not so much when I ride. but it is there for me. just being honest.

 

[ninjanewbie]

RIP to a fallen Bretheren.

 

[NoGall]

what? that isn't at all what I am saying.

dude, don't put words in my mouth. bottom line, bikes are more dangerous and fatality rates in collisions are greater.

Yes, we know that. I am pretty sure we all know that is true as well for car vs. pedestrian.

I don't think in any way, shape or form he deserved this, or is at fault. but the bottom line is, if this were two cars and he was belted, he probably would have survived, or had more protection.

Nobody would disagree on that the probability of survival is better, if you were niether a motorcyclist nor a pedestrian, when struck by a 4-wheeled vehicle.

I am including myself in this, but two cars hitting at 40 can still kill you, but cars are more visible and you can react more aggressively.

How about just stay in your own lane in the first place, so you don't have to go head-on with the opposing traffic... and kill/injure somebody.

he took the risk and got burned. and it is horrible. and it is what I worry about when I am not riding. not so much when I ride. but it is there for me. just being honest.

Back to the pedestrian again...

"He was just walking down the street, minding his own business, until a van jumped the curb and killed him... He might have survived had he been in a car... He took the risk and got burned."

Maybe you shouldn't ever leave the house on foot... You don't want to take a chance there. But really, that doen't even have anything to do with the real issue.

The point is that unless he, whether as a rider or a driver, was doing crazy shit and taking chances, there is a reasonable expectation of safety by following the rules of the road. When that expectation of safety is removed by another party's reckless driving or possible DUI, due diligence is required in both the investigation and reporting, regardless of the victim's choice in vehicle -- equal protection under the law (or willing-ness to prosecute). What we have seen so far, around the country, is that when a motorcyclist is killed or maimed by a "cager" (I hate using that word, but it fits here), there is often a lack of interest or will to investigate and prosecute those cases because "It was his choice to pilot an organ doner." We often don't get justice in those cases without community pressure.

Your statments kind of perpetuate the wrong thinking. That's all.

 

[gixxerjeff]

I ride that road just about every weekend. It's challenging, fast in spots and can be fun as hell. It's also constantly littered with the little make shift memorials that we all have grown accustomed to seeing. The odds are they both were probably speeding. As far as the 250 feet thing, yeah, that confuses me too. The only thing I can think of is perhaps the rider ended up going down one of the many embankments after impact. Then again, that wouldn't explain how he was on fire since that theory would put him even farther from the burning van. Dunno.
Another sad story that once again hits way too close to home.
My thoughts and prayers to the riders family and friends.

 

[Zerox]

I am from a town called West Marion so this thread title has startled me like 5 times already in the past couple days.

 

[Marlowe]

I'm massively confused.

If the rider was hit by a van how did he end up 250 feet down the road and on fire?

Tank between rider and frame. High speed impact (F=mv), causing tank to rupture or the cap to give way. Rider stays with bike just long enough to be covered in gasoline. Any little spark along the way (even a zipper scraping on the roadway), and you have fire.

rider...

 

[hophead]

what? that isn't at all what I am saying.

dude, don't put words in my mouth. bottom line, bikes are more dangerous and fatality rates in collisions are greater.

I don't think in any way, shape or form he deserved this, or is at fault. but the bottom line is, if this were two cars and he was belted, he probably would have survived, or had more protection.

I am including myself in this, but two cars hitting at 40 can still kill you, but cars are more visible and you can react more aggressively.

if you are gonna put words in my mouth I cannot argue with you.

he took the risk and got burned. and it is horrible. and it is what I worry about when I am not riding. not so much when I ride. but it is there for me. just being honest.

you confuse me because you still seem to be assigning some guilt to the rider? like it was his fault for having ridden the motorcycle? i don't get your point and in fact call bullshit.
this man by all accounts was riding his ride and it was the fucking dumbass car driver who stepped out of bounds and into his right of way and killed him. fuck that dude for what he did, it's just that simple, and tragic too. WTF?

 

[serazin]

We don't know, so it doesn't make any sense to make any assumptions.

Some flaws in your reasoning:
1. He was 59 years old, but how long did he actually ride a bike. You think a long time, could be a wrong assumption.
2. He lived near the accident, but how long has he lived there? You don't know.
3. You assume that he is a veteran rider. You might be wrong.
4. The van driver's blood alchohol was under the legal limit. You assum he drifted, you may be wrong.
5. You assume the driver was a fuckhead. If it was the rider that crossed over the line, you are wrong.

See, assumptions are just that and it doesn't help the situation whatsoever for anybody to start making assumptions. Period.

'nuff said.

And well said I might add.

Every time "WE" see a posting about someone getting killed in a motorcycle accident "WE" are ready to get a rope and lynch the driver even before the all facts come out. It isn't always the driver's fault, not always the rider's fault..sometimes is is a combination of the two.

I'm waiting to make a call on this one.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

The guy who wrote the article's e-mail is gklien@marinij.com

I just wrote him an email respectfully objecting to the way his article was phrased. Wouldn't hurt if his Inbox got a few more similar e-mails...

Thank you. I will be sending him an e-mail, advising him that Robert Amen did not "smash into" a Ford E350 van- he was struck by Charles Belford, who had been drinking & crossed into oncoming traffic. There is a difference!
I will also point out that as he's a journalist, I'm not exactly going out on a limb to assume he has some concept of grammar, sentence structure, and the English language in general.
It makes me angry seeing this type of bias in the printed media. It would be nice if they reported the news as it actually happened.

My deepest condolences to Robert Amen's family and friends... such a tragic loss.
I hope that the driver of the van is charged with a crime... if he'd been drinking, and "drifted" into oncoming traffic, wouldn't that qualify for manslaughter?

 

[canyonrat]

Robert Amen was a member of the North Bay Sport Riders (NBSR) Board. I did not know him, though some of our members did.

These accidents are always bad and tragic when some one looses their life.

 

[TTTom]

you confuse me because you still seem to be assigning some guilt to the rider? like it was his fault for having ridden the motorcycle? i don't get your point and in fact call bullshit.
this man by all accounts was riding his ride and it was the fucking dumbass car driver who stepped out of bounds and into his right of way and killed him. fuck that dude for what he did, it's just that simple, and tragic too. WTF?

It's human nature for people to rationalize why something like this won't happen to them too. Musta been partly the riders fault, maybe if he'd late apexed he'd have had a better chance, etc etc.

It's just a mental defense mechanism that people use to make it easier to get on the bike again the next day.

 

[PageMillPlaya]

RIP

 

[serazin]

Well I see there have been some updates in the last five hours. Still, it won't bring the rider back. Such a tragic loss.

Please be careful and expect the unexpected.

 

[Gunzen]

you confuse me because you still seem to be assigning some guilt to the rider? like it was his fault for having ridden the motorcycle? i don't get your point and in fact call bullshit.
this man by all accounts was riding his ride and it was the fucking dumbass car driver who stepped out of bounds and into his right of way and killed him. fuck that dude for what he did, it's just that simple, and tragic too. WTF?

like it was his fault for having ridden the motorcycle?

yes, it is partially his fault for dying. because we as motorcyclists know that all things being equal, even a minor accident can cause death. and it is tragic that this person died. but he made a decision to choose a mode of transportation that is SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous than the alternatives, and got burned by it.

you wanna place ALL the blame on the driver fine, but the bottom line is he was riding down a highway unprotected in any way. and if he really wanted to be his safest, he would drive a car.

I don't know why it is so hard for people to accept that we are being selfish to ones we love/take care of by riding. we are. we are willing to risk it, but we are.

we get into the batters box with a 0-1 count automatically every time we ride. and that was all I was pointing out.

we are adults, and we make those decisions. but I keep seeing people here act surprised, or want to lynch a driver for making a mistake. you know what, we all do, and that guy did. and the person he happened to hit, was not traveling in the safest mode possible. any of us can make that mistake.

so while it is tragic, I beleive that us a smotorcylists have to take SOME responsibility for messing with a bull, and getting the horns. life isnt fair, and we know it.

myself included. realizing this, will most likely make you a safer rider. thinking that is is "just like driving" risk wise, is asking for trouble. IMO

 

[Dove]

Gunzen - there is a time and place for everything. Do you feel as if you've chosen the right time and the right place for your opinion?

for the passed rider...

 

[Gunzen]

Gunzen - there is a time and place for everything. Do you feel as if you've chosen the right time and the right place for your opinion?

for the passed rider...

you know what, what is the difference of analyzing a crash, and discusiing the dangers of riding? I dont think anyone here knows this person, and if they do, I dont think ANY of them feel this discussion makes one bit of difference to their loss. None.


my point was we should not consider riding safely to be safe, or even close to being in a car, cause it isnt. and it is ignorant to think that.

but fair enough, I disagree that this in any way effects the family, but cause you asked, I will drop it. Just make sure you tell the guys earlier in the thread who said it might be the riders fault, (before I posted the fact that is wasnt) , to stop too.

 

[NoGall]

STFU.

 

[ThumperX]

RIP Robert Amen...
...long may you run

 

[intortus]

but he made a decision to choose a mode of transportation that is SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous than the alternatives, and got burned by it.

Terrible pun.

 

[racercosmo]

So if a tractor-trailer crossed the line and hit a Suburban, the Suburban driver would be at fault for not choosing a Kenworth?