Riding Tips: Two Up Riding

[DocWong]

Hi,

I thought I'd share some riding tips for both passengers and riders:

For a long time I haven't taken many passengers and have generally 
loathed the idea of it. However, riding with my wife 
has taught me otherwise! So, riding with a passenger CAN be fun. (at 
least it's news to me)

Here's what we worked out riding together.  In fact it worked out so well that my wife last year started riding herself!

Instructions for passenger:

1. Lightly "wallpaper" yourself onto the rider's back. That way you can easily sense when the rider begins to lean.

2. Lean only to the degree that the rider leans, no more, no less.  This allows the rider to control body position of both rider and passenger.

3. When comming to a stop or slowing down, put one hand against the 
tank and maybe one hand the back of the bike (many bikes have a 
handhold at the rear of the seat) to lessen the forward pressure 
against the rider.

4. Don't be afraid to hang onto the rider. He or she will be happier, knowing you have a secure hold and won't fall off the back of the motorcycle.

5. Whatever you do, do NOT make any sudden moves or any abnormal moves at all while in the middle of a turn. My 170 lb son decided to shift his body to get more comfortable while in the middle of turn....shall I say "wiggle"? It could have stained my leathers!  Wait until the bike is upright and out of the turn, then you can 
squirm, etc.

6. When comming to a stop, keep your feet up on the pegs.

7. Work out how you're going to mount on and off the bike so the bike does not tip over in the effort.  I use the edge of a curb to make it easier for the passenger to mount the bike.

8. If you don't have a rider to passenger intercom, work out signals to let them know if you're doing OK, need to stop, faster or slower, etc.

9. A good thing to do is to keep your eyes on the road and see which way the next turn goes. Then you can move your head over whichever shoulder the next turn will be. The bike will be more balanced, you 
should feel better about the turn and you won't bump helmets as much.

10. Grip and anchor your body to the motorcycle using your thighs, thus stabilizing your upper body. This can give you a lot more security and lessen the need to hang onto the rider.


Instructions for the rider:

1. Get a good rider to passenger intercom, it makes all the difference.

2. Riding with a passenger may expose some of your own skill deficiencies as your errors may be accentuated by the extra weight. I found myself very conscious of smooth throttle and clutch control, entry points, lines, and body english, this made me ride better.

3. If you normally ride at a "brisk" pace, click down a couple of notches in your usual speeds. No particularly logical reason for this except to leave an even larger margin for error and my desire not to have an injured passenger in case I screw up.  It's safer and can inspire confidence in your passenger.  

4. In addition to keeping your bike well maintained, I make sure my 
tires are not underinflated and use the manufacturer's specs for 
riding two up. Increasing the bike's rear pre-load is also advisable.

5. If your passenger is leaning correctly, you'll need less body lean 
to get around that same turn at that same speed. It was very 
confidence inspiring to know that when I leaned, she would lean that 
exact amount, no less and no more.

6. Start and get leaned over before you begin to turn. No one should 
be shifting around in any part of a turn. It got to the point 
where she was able to predict when I would lean and be able to lean at 
exactly the same time as I. Quite an experience.

7. Check your passenger's helmet strap before the ride, it's often 
too loose.

8. Show your passenger how your stopping and taking off from stops will
occur and keep it smooth. This will reduce the turtle humping to
almost nothing.

9. Make sure you passenger is wearing protective riding gear. Nuff said.

Above All Have fun!  Have I missed anything, or anything you could add?

Doc Wong.

 

[rodr]

I would add: Introduce her carefully to heavy traffic and/or lane splitting. I had a passenger get freaked out on 101 with cars all around... was not even splitting.

EDIT: Oh and make sure she knows where the hot parts are on the bike.

Nice list!

 

[DocWong]

I would add: Introduce her carefully to heavy traffic and/or lane splitting. I had a passenger get freaked out on 101 with cars all around... was not even splitting.

EDIT: Oh and make sure she knows where the hot parts are on the bike.

Nice list!

Good point! Like anything else ride at a pace and location that will make it a good experience!

 

[eworthington]

I prefer the pillion to sit still and not lean into the turns with me, but instead to just turn their head and look through the turns with me. Seems to be more stable and consistent than if they try to lean with me but go too far or not far enough, or if their amount of lean changes from corner to corner. Easier for them to just stay upright on the bike and let me control everything.

I've never done a 2-up on a racetrack but would love to someday--do those riders prefer their passengers to lean or not as they zoom together around the track?

 

[DocWong]

Many times it depends on the passenger in what they will feel comfortable with, so far my last 3 passengers (wife being the last one) were all pretty adventurous. One kept wanting me to go faster, sliding in the rain and mud. She was definitely nuts. ;-)

So your strategy I think is a good one as that is working for you.

In 2-Up track riding, yes the passenger should definitely lean with the rider as speeds are faster and more lean is necessary usually. Of course if the passenger is a bit nervous, we just go a lot slower so they don't freak out.

 

[weasel]

*Subscribed*

 

[Erbuck]

Good stuff doc!

I would also re-emphasize his statement of checking the passenger's helmet strap AND checking the passenger has their feet on the passenger footpegs (and not the muffler). Sometimes the obvious stuff to the rider isn't obvious to the (noob) passenger.

Something I'd like to add: A passenger with a loose shoulder bag can create unexpected and unwelcome weight shifts in a turn. Find a way to secure it better, or keep it in their lap between the passenger & rider. Don't assume they will hold onto it.

 

[sckego]

1. Lightly "wallpaper" yourself onto the rider's back. That way you can easily sense when the rider begins to lean.

I actually recommend my passengers sit slightly back from me and allow a bit of space, so that we're not constantly bumping into each other and bumping helmets, etc. I find that when a passenger sits right up against me, even lightly, it feels like it restricts my movement. The passenger shouldn't be relying on physical cues from the rider as to when to lean; they should be watching the road ahead, looking for turns, obstacles, bumps, etc, just as the rider is, so that they can anticipate what is coming up.

2. Lean only to the degree that the rider leans, no more, no less. This allows the rider to control body position of both rider and passenger.

My number one rule to any passenger has them leaning a bit further than me: wherever we are going, you watch over my inside shoulder. If I'm leaning off to the inside, they have to lean even further to get their head inside of mine. Their butt stays planted, but their upper body leaning. If I'm transitioning side to side, so are you.

3. When comming to a stop or slowing down, put one hand against the
tank and maybe one hand the back of the bike (many bikes have a
handhold at the rear of the seat) to lessen the forward pressure
against the rider.

Ideally, I don't carry any of the passenger's weight while braking. They are braced either on the tank or the grab handles (or both) to support their own weight. Also, squeezing the bike/bodywork with their legs (similar to riding a horse) helps keep the lower body from sliding forwards.

4. Don't be afraid to hang onto the rider. He or she will be happier, knowing you have a secure hold and won't fall off the back of the motorcycle.

The lower the better, here. Hips are fine. Waist is OK. Do not hold anything above my waist - flanks and shoulders are right out. Those areas directly affect my ability to control the bike and are off limits. Once practiced and comfortable enough, the passenger shouldn't really have to hold on to the rider at all, just legs squeezing the bike, and hands on gas tank/grab rails. Ideally, I would not even notice you are there at all.

7. Work out how you're going to mount on and off the bike so the bike does not tip over in the effort. I use the edge of a curb to make it easier for the passenger to mount the bike.

What works well here is to have the rider braced with both feet on the ground. Passenger puts left foot on the *rider's* left footpeg (lower than pax footpeg, makes the next step easier), stands up on it, and swings right leg over the bike, settles on pax seat. Then moves both feet up to pax footpegs.

9. A good thing to do is to keep your eyes on the road and see which way the next turn goes. Then you can move your head over whichever shoulder the next turn will be. The bike will be more balanced, you
should feel better about the turn and you won't bump helmets as much.

YES. It is just as important for the passenger to pay attention and anticipate what's coming up as it is for the rider.

2. Riding with a passenger may expose some of your own skill deficiencies as your errors may be accentuated by the extra weight. I found myself very conscious of smooth throttle and clutch control, entry points, lines, and body english, this made me ride better.

Smoothness is key. Hard braking and acceleration are no problem, but I can't just grab a sudden big handful of brake or throttle - progressive, smooth application gives the passenger a second to brace and prepare, so they don't come sliding into you on the brakes or almost toppling over backwards on the gas.

 

[Enchanter]

Great Thread!

Rider:
Ensure you have an adequate (more than you think) amount of insurance before you take a passenger on a ride.
Don't hang off the motorcycle. Plant your ass in the seat. If you're hanging off, you're going too fast (with a passenger).

Passenger:
Gently squeeze the riders lower body with your legs. It helps anchor you to them (and the bike), and you will also feel the rider tense up as they prepare for acceleration, braking, turning, or an evasive maneuver.

No helmet kisses. Nobody likes them. Stop it!

 

[Biker&wheeler]

About 80% of my riding is two up with my wife. We ride at a very quick pace two up. A few guys on here can attest to that.. Duncan?
We definently do hang off together if we choose to push it. If we don't lean/hang off we run out of clearance fairly quickly on all the bikes we have had. One of the things not mentioned above is suspension adjustment. This should go without saying, but you really NEED to adjust sag for two up riding. The weight distribution changes drastically with a pillion. The other thing not yet talked about is riding strategies to deal with all the weight being on the rear of the bike. It makes weight transitions much more pronounced and being smooth much more important. I find if you are riding seriously fast, trail braking is essential. If you are accustomed to doing all your braking before turn in, then accelerating through the corner, you will likely find the front end going away/washing out/ understeering etc because the lack of weight on the front end. At the same time, braking distance is alot longer than normal. I'm not encouraging g people to go out and try to drag knee with your girlfriend. It takes a lot of adjusting and practice to be fast and safe two up.
It is fun when you school squids riding two up, or when you come out of a second gear corner and power wheelie to 90+ before dropping it down. If you can do it safely...

 

[danate]

Some very good points made.

I also tell my passenger to look over my shoulder to the inside of each turn. This generally puts their upper body in a good position for the corner.

I also agree on trail braking into every turn with the added weight on the rear. With a passenger, you have to start your braking earlier and be extremely smooth. I also practice the "Freddie Spencer" method of applying my brakes while still on the throttle and applying throttle before coming off the brakes completely. This gives the most stable suspension throughout the turn.

I love having a passenger because it allows me to practice being as smooth as possible, and I get a quick helmet bonk reminder if I'm not doing so. The best part is when I ride on my own next I find myself at maximum smoothiosity (tm).

 

[rodr]

I also agree on trail braking into every turn with the added weight on the rear. With a passenger, you have to start your braking earlier and be extremely smooth.

Not sure I understand. I thought trail braking was a form of late braking, not early...?

I definitely understand the need for smoothness and a gentle throttle.

 

[Biker&wheeler]

Ya sorry I most likely wasn't clear. Some breaking into the corner to the apex is what I'm suggesting. It keeps some weight on the front end. If you are accelerating all the weight goes to the rear and you lose the front end easily. Make sense?

 

[rodr]

Got it, thanks.

 

[danate]

Not sure I understand. I thought trail braking was a form of late braking, not early...?

I definitely understand the need for smoothness and a gentle throttle.

Trail braking is simply trailing off the brakes as you go into the turn, as well as making your steering input while still on the brakes to some extent.

I only said start braking earlier in reference to having a passenger. More weight will mean a bigger weight transfer, so allowing more time to do it will keep the bike smoother. Then the trail braking allows the suspension to stay more stable during the steering input and transition to the throttle while in the turn.

 

[Underdog]

One more thing- practice an emergency brake with your passenger. Do it a few times.

 

[bruceflinch]

Thanks for the tips, Doc!

 

[latindane]

I don't think I'd ever ride a pace that would warrant trail braking on public roads with my wife on the back.

 

[Rtmac]

After 30 years of riding together, my wife is an expert passenger!
Our simple rules...

Never hold on to ME! Especially don't grab my shoulders, which can restrict my arm movement.

Hold the seat strap only, with your right hand. As the speed/lean increases, pull on the strap (which pulls her down to the seat). This works so well, when we've gotten new bikes that don't have the seat strap, I always add one.

As speed/lean increases, lean in and stay stuck to my back ("wallpaper") so our lean angle matches.

Never take your feet off the pegs while we're moving.

 

[danate]

I don't think I'd ever ride a pace that would warrant trail braking on public roads with my wife on the back.

Trail braking doesn't have to be associated with a higher pace. I use it all the time at mellow speeds as well. It is just a nice way of stabilizing the suspension in a turn. It's a good tactic for street riding because if you go into a turn and need to reduce speed, by already being on the brake you can add a little to slow without having as much weight shift forward. This helps negate the classic scenario where someone applies their front brake in a turn and goes wide due to the weight shift standing the bike up (though that is usually at faster speeds).