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RIP Death Valley Rider

CDONA said:
Az news had a vid about seniors falling onto hot pavement, and the 2nd & 3rd * burns inflicted, on knees and elbows.
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O.O Great, well when I get older and I'm in AZ, I'll know to bring armored jeans and shirts, let those melt to the pavement.
 
About wind chill factor at very higher temps. I recall my MSF instructor (many moons ago) telling me to protect the body & skin from excessive heat with insulation. In other words, staying zipped up with some sweat or moisture will reduce heat exhaustion or hyperthermia.

Just like the air roaster feature in the oven, things will cook faster. I have felt this on drives in a no air con car on the highway north of 95F. It was cooler to turn on the vents and crack windows than to let open all the windows.
 
Saxon said:
Just like the air roaster feature in the oven, things will cook faster.
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When I was coming back from Utah one summer, in my truck with no A/C, as I was on the 15 out of Vegas, I had the windows up and the vents shut. I just soaked the heat from there. If I've going to be in an oven, no reason to make it a convection oven.
 
Sad... CA Vacation dream ride gone bad.
 
Grissom said:
German Tourists

www.vvdailypress.com

German tourist succumbs to heat in Death Valley as temperature hits 128 degrees

A second rider was hospitalized with heat-related injuries after falling ill as the temperature soared to 129 degrees.
www.vvdailypress.com
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"The record-setting heat prevented rescuers from using a helicopter to transport the victims directly from Death Valley, as they can't safely fly in temperatures above 120 degrees"

That simply makes no sense to me. I'd really like to know what kind of rotaries they're flying as our FAT gauge routinely was in the 130 range at take off in the middle east and we definitely never called any flights due to high temperatures. :wtf
 
Kornholio said:
"The record-setting heat prevented rescuers from using a helicopter to transport the victims directly from Death Valley, as they can't safely fly in temperatures above 120 degrees"

That simply makes no sense to me. I'd really like to know what kind of rotaries they're flying as our FAT gauge routinely was in the 130 range at take off in the middle east and we definitely never called any flights due to high temperatures. :wtf
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I've heard of the 120 degree threshold for years. A friend had a six month assignment in Phoenix but lived in the BA. Hated the heat and would look forward to flying home every weekend. Once in a while, he'd be on the tarmac on a Friday afternoon about to go home, when they would go back to the terminal saying it was too hot to fly.

Perhaps the difference is that while it's possible to fly, the risk goes up to levels unacceptable for commercial aviation but acceptable in the face of having to support a military operation.
 
Believe me when I tell you that anyone living in a desert environment would be just as acclimated as we were to the middle eastern desert environment. It just doesn't make sense to me why the crews wouldn't be able to handle it.
 
I bet they could. However the upper management may have a liability level they can operate under with their issurance etc. and the risk goes up significantly enough to not warrant doing it.

Did you you ever see issues in the desert for the fly boys at extreme heat?
 
budman said:
Did you you ever see issues in the desert for the fly boys at extreme heat?
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We'd have some limits on capacity, but nothing significant at all. We definitely could run even the heaviest missions we needed to in terms of speed and/or capacity when it was reading 120-130 outside. I'd be really disappointed in an underwriter limiting the ability to save someone when you're not under IFR just because it's hot outside. If that's the case, I sincerely wish they'd out who the underwriter is.

I've never experienced any on-board equipment overheating either. :dunno
 
Kornholio said:
Believe me when I tell you that anyone living in a desert environment would be just as acclimated as we were to the middle eastern desert environment. It just doesn't make sense to me why the crews wouldn't be able to handle it.
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I don't think it's a matter of whether the crew can handle it. They're worried about a higher probability of something going wrong due to reduced lift. Like it or not, the margin of safety is likely a lot thinner for military operations than for commercial aviation, even for a rescue. In this case, the comparison is the life of one guy who put himself in harm's way, vs. the safety of an aircraft and its crew.
 
tzrider said:
I don't think it's a matter of whether the crew can handle it. They're worried about a higher probability of something going wrong due to reduced lift. Like it or not, the margin of safety is likely a lot thinner for military operations than for commercial aviation, even for a rescue. In this case, the comparison is the life of one guy who put himself in harm's way, vs. the safety of an aircraft and its crew.
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I get it, I'm just speculating from experience. I'm not a scientist but I spent years in rotary-wing aircraft. The difference between say 110, 115 and 120 degrees with regard to how thin the air is really isn't that much. Especially when you consider how low the humidity is in Death Valley to begin with plus they're below sea level. If they're able to operate safely at 100-115 degrees, I sincerely doubt 120-130 changes the dynamics that much. However, your last sentence is probably the most valid argument they have. But I'm curious what their temperature ceiling is.
 
Asking aviation experts or amateur meteorologists: are there are different levels of air density in the dry Southwester U.S. vs. other parts of the world. Even if the temperatures are the same, the humidity or air density may not be, which would affect flight safety. Not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious.
 
Map8 said:
Asking aviation experts or amateur meteorologists: are there are different levels of air density in the dry Southwester U.S. vs. other parts of the world. Even if the temperatures are the same, the humidity or air density may not be, which would affect flight safety. Not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious.
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I'm not an aviation expert of any kind, but from what I know, air density is a function of air pressure (barometric and/or altitude), humidity and temperature. This is mostly my recollection from tuning 2-strokes.
 
from my own personal experiences in 100+ riding, it seems that there isn't much "wind chill" available below around 80mph when in 100+ conditions! :cautious:
... and not sure I could ride fast enough at 120 degrees to find any "wind chilling"! (n)
 
As I recall when leaving Vegas one July (buddy needed a tire) when it was hovering near 120, there was no cooling at all, and any air that made it in my jacket felt like I was cooking. I also had to keep my speed in check because the bike was having trouble keeping the temps down as well. Saw a guy riding in jean shorts, a tank top and a half helmet with a handlebar mount that held 7-11 big gulp jug, and it was the only time that sort of setup made sense to me... Why yes, he was on a Harley.
 
There is a couple of thousand feet difference in density altitude between 100F and 130F. That difference is significant in aircraft performance. Density altitude is what the aircraft "sees" when factoring in altitude, baro pressure, temp, dew point.
Military aircraft are engineered quite differently then non military aircraft and have to be able to perform in much more extreme enviroments then civilian enginnered aircraft. You can't compare performance specs without the data.
I've flown in and out of high altitude airports many times. You have to calculate the density altitude and aircraft performance charts if you want to stay alive.
 
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