Shorai LFX Lithium-Iron Battery Charger

[ST Guy]

If your bike has parasitic draws with the ignition off like clocks, ignition computers, etc., then you will need to keep it charged with some sort of smart charger if you leave the bike sitting for awhile. Only if your bike has zero parasitic draw would you really not need to be concerned about a Battery Tender type charger.

 

[protokultur]

No, you don't need a tender for normal things like the clock or computer. For any of the bikes I have owned at least. Other people may be running their front lawn christmas lights off their bike batteries, I dunno.

When I had my DRZ it would drink down the lead acid battery within 2 weeks if it wasn't on a tender. On the Shorai I left it for seven months and it started in 2 cranks. Other bike has been on a Shorai 2 years and I've never used a tender.

Anyway, hope people are learning things here, I just wanted to correct what I see is a misconception.

 

[auntiebling]

No, you don't need a tender for normal things like the clock or computer. For any of the bikes I have owned at least. Other people may be running their front lawn christmas lights off their bike batteries, I dunno.

When I had my DRZ it would drink down the lead acid battery within 2 weeks if it wasn't on a tender. On the Shorai I left it for seven months and it started in 2 cranks. Other bike has been on a Shorai 2 years and I've never used a tender.

Anyway, hope people are learning things here, I just wanted to correct what I see is a misconception.

you didn't correct anything buy leaving out details.

what is "other bike"
how often does it normally sit?
what is it's typical "ride" how far do you go under what conditions? does the battery see enough time at 3k+ RPM to charge the battery?

there is a big difference in parasitic draw between various bikes.

fwiw i like my li-fe battery experience. my anecdotal evidence mirrors yours but i wouldn't go so far as to call it proof.

 

[dtrides]

Use your Battery Tender once a week if necessary on your Shori, just remove once full charge is achieved . Ducati's are famous for drawing down a battery and usually need the battery to be kept up to snuff.
I had absolutely no issues with the Shori I ran on my Street Triple.
DT

 

[EEL]

Not hard to justify actually - no need to use tender anymore and better cold starting than a Pb-acid battery. And the extra cost really isn't that much, for my bike it's $140 for an LFX14 vs. $100 for the Yuasa, both 220 CCA.

2 years on mine (LFX18) and no issues.

You don't need to convince me about the benefits, I own a shorai. I had the factory lead acid battery on my DUC from 2005 to 2011.

I never trickle charged it, I let it sit for long periods of time during winters and it still ran fine when I got rid of it.

As of now I have no proof that my shorai will be THAT rock solid. I'll let you know in another 4 1/2 years. Somehow I doubt it.

 

[ST Guy]

With so many lithium ion batteries out there and many now being used for motorsports, I'm surprised that manufacturers aren't equiping their bikes with them if they're so much better and lighter. Maybe they don't want to deal with redesigning their charging systems? Expense? Or? But I'd think that with high end sport bikes where they're always shaving off ounces, that they'd at least use them there. Maybe there's something they know that we don't.

 

[PorradaVFR]

So how do you check for parasitic draw with a multimeter? The only way I can think of is remove battery - test. Reconnect battery - test and any delta = draw.

 

[auntiebling]

a battery has to be in the system otherwise you have no source of current to lose parasitically.

use multimeter in current mode to jumper between terminals that fuses plug into to narrow down which circuit is doing it.

you can start by jumpering through the meter from the batt (+) to the disconnected (+) lead but that will only tell you if the entire system is drawing something.

 

[ST Guy]

To explain a bit more, your meter should have a setting for milliamps. Typically this setting is expressed: mA. Set the meter to this setting, disconect the negative cable from the battery and put the meter between the negative cable and the negative terminal of the battery. As autie explained, this will tell you what the overall parasitic draw is, if any. To narrow down which circuit the draw is on, you can go to your fuse panel, pull one fuse at a time, and measure between the two connectors the fuse plugs into.

Important note: Do NOT turn your ignition on when testing in the milliamp mode on your meter. Most meters will only measure in milliamps (thousandths of an amp) and they often have pretty low max current limits for that particular function. If you turn on the ignition, you increase the current going through the meter and therefore risk either blowing the protection fuse in the meter, or if the meter doesn't have any fuse protection, you risk blowing the meter itself.

 

[auntiebling]

STguy
what's the diff between using the (+) or (-) cable for the overall test?

last time i tried i did it both ways and basically got the same answer.

 

[ST Guy]

It'll work either way, but it's generally considered a safer thing to do if the negative terminal of the battery is removed first before the positive. Don't ask me why.

 

[ST Guy]

But the more I think about it, I like your idea of measuring at each fuse and adding things up. It's likely simpler and less work to do aside from recording the readings and doing the math.

 

[ST Guy]

Or, many bikes often have a main fuse, often located at or near the starter relay. Pulling that fuse and making the reading there gives you overall system draw without the need to disconect cables.

 

[OldBlade]

It'll work either way, but it's generally considered a safer thing to do if the negative terminal of the battery is removed first before the positive. Don't ask me why.

If your wrench slips and touches the frame while turning the negative terminal bolt - no harm done.

You have to be extremely careful removing the positive connection if the negative terminal is still connected.

 

[vostok4]

If your wrench slips and touches the frame while turning the negative terminal bolt - no harm done.

You have to be extremely careful removing the positive connection if the negative terminal is still connected.

+1. It's just a safety/ease of removal thing.

 

[imabigdave]

If your wrench slips and touches the frame while turning the negative terminal bolt - no harm done.

You have to be extremely careful removing the positive connection if the negative terminal is still connected.

yeah, you only make that mistake ONCE in a 24 volt system....I blew a battery post off a bulldozer that way when I forgot to shut off the negative first.

 

[Var]

Quick class in Lithium batteries

Lithium-Ion - most common in consumer electronics/power tools. They are in basically every computer/electronic gizmo you can think of. Not in use for super high amperage draw for anything that I'm aware. For stuff that draws a little bit of energy at a time (ie: not to start an engine, but your phone has one)

Lithium Phosphate (or Lithium Iron Phosphate) - newest up and coming and considered the 'safest' of the Lithium chemistries when the batteries fail or vent. Pretty decent discharge rate for high amperage applications

Lithium Polymer - known as the most dangerous but also the highest current capable of the 3. These are the ones I use in my RC Airplanes. They discharge fast but they are very finicky and can explode and fuck your shit up.

All these batteries need to be treated with respect. If they ever catch fire or vent...if you EVER see smoke coming out of them or fire...walk or run away. That's Hydroflouric Acid and it will basically screw up your internal organs and can kill you.

Look up HF poisoning for more detail.







Consumer grade Lithium cells generally hold around 3.7 volts fully discharged and 4.2 volts fully charged. That's right - they work in a .5 volts range. They can drop to around 3-ish volts before the cells go bad but generally you don't want to do that to them. If more than 3.7 volts is needed they are wired in series which adds the voltage up, or wired in parallel for more capacity, or in series and in parallel for both increased voltage and capacity. Your cordless power tool for example..if it's 18.5 volts has 5 lithium ion cells in series. 3.7x5=18.5

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about these Shorai batteries. They might be a different chemistry or have special protection circuitry inside as some lithium batteries do to prevent over-discharging
I don't know if they can be brought back to life. If they are regular LiFePO4 cells then your combined voltage shouldn't be below 9 volts assuming it's a 3 cell setup. Grab a multi-meter on DC voltage mode and test the voltage on the battery

 

[Var]

Here is what they found on the website.

Based on both columns, the 12v setup is a 4 cell and the 6v is a 2 cell, and they are extremely liberal with their discharged voltage, allowing it to drop to 2.3 volts per cell. The battery is pretty much toast at that point. Although in their defense they do recommend not to let it drop below those resting voltages. I would email them and ask if they have over-discharge protection circuitry otherwise it's not worth the money to buy again. I can probably build my own battery for cheaper.

 

[Chris]

I seem to recall folks espousing the need to buy special chargers when AGM's hit the market, too.

Foolishly, I kept using the same old Battery Tender on it, figuring if the battery died an early death, it probably wasn't going to outweigh the $150 Odyssey for a new charger. (Do they sell left-handed Crescent wrenches too?)

Now here we are 10 years later with the same battery, same tender.

 

[Dr_SLO]

Push start that fucker.

Yeah, I tried that. My garage is at the top of a nice incline. Unfortunately, the ground was still slick and there wasn't enough grip to bump start the engine in 2nd. What I did learn is that I might need to take up a New Year's resolution. I almost had a heart attack pushing the R1 back up the 300 yards to the garage