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Solarcity

Just got done purchasing a system. In our case our base allotment was shit and we're paying tier 4 almost every month. Solar should drop our bill to around $20/month. My takeaways on the process:

- Learn the different inverter types. At a minimum, understand the difference between micro inverters and string inverters.

- Equipment prices are reasonably transparent, which gives you some insight on how much labor and profit are baked into the quotes.

- Do your own numbers. Most quotes contain bullshit ROI charts saying your system will pay off in less than 7 years. They're based on unrealistic electricity rate increases and likely over production. In our case the system we got will be closer to 10

- Haven't confirmed, but you might be able to claim at least some of the cost of a new roof on the 30% tax credit
 
mlm said:
- Haven't confirmed, but you might be able to claim at least some of the cost of a new roof on the 30% tax credit
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Yes, thru 12/31/2016. The IRS may tweak the language (like it did for the production tax credit) and grant safe habour status if you begin the installation or place an order. TBD, tho. It's not the ongoing statute.
 
Switch to a PPA if you can. It really makes a lot more financial sense than purchasing. Buy the power, not the equipment. 0 down, and all the annoying stuff becomes someone else's problem. I needed some major roof work, but it wasn't apparent until after the contract was signed so the solar company did it for free. After 20 years you can tell the solar company to fuck off, they aren't going to come get your array. The array is resold as collateral backed security to faceless investors, and the solar company is only a loan servicer. No incentive.
 
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mercurial said:
Switch to a PPA if you can. It really makes a lot more financial sense than purchasing. Buy the power, not the equipment. 0 down, and all the annoying stuff becomes someone else's problem.
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It's akin to owning or leasing a vehicle, renting or owning a house. There are pros and cons for each.
 
come on waz, in a PPA i only pay what is produced. no more no less. if the grid goes to shit, here in Nv, they have dual meters, and the switch to disconnect from the grid and keep my local is very obvious. as long as i don't run ac i will well within bounds of my usage. your bias is vary clear
 
The thing I've found to be a deal breaker with leases or purchase agreements, is that the solar company puts a lien on your mortgage and you have to pay off the entire system before you can sell your home. Not an issue if you're planning on staying in the home for 20+ years.
 
Coastal Coyote said:
The thing I've found to be a deal breaker with leases or purchase agreements, is that the solar company puts a lien on your mortgage and you have to pay off the entire system before you can sell your home. Not an issue if you're sure you will be staying in the home for 20+ years or have the cash to pay it off outright if you don't.
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Went ahead and FTFY :thumbup
 
My bias? I work for a big name Solar company now. :laughing

UL 1741 is the standard for distributed inverters and has a section on anti-islanding requirements. If someone is selling systems saying you'll be on line during a power outages and not installing a transfer switch and battery bank, they are either selling a false bill of goods or a system that doesn't meet code.

http://www.metlabs.com/blog/emc/ul-...nverters-includes-anti-islanding-requirement/
 
Coastal Coyote said:
The thing I've found to be a deal breaker with leases or purchase agreements, is that the solar company puts a lien on your mortgage and you have to pay off the entire system before you can sell your home. Not an issue if you're planning on staying in the home for 20+ years.
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That's my big question... what happens if you move? Do you have to pay the balance off? Or does the lease transfer to the new owner? If you're a buyer, what if you don't want that shit?
 
ahhh, i thought you were still with PGE. I meant that I can make it an island pretty easy if I install teh switch all mcgeveryish. not for temp power outage type thing, but like, power is not coming back on for a while or at all type event
 
mercurial said:
Switch to a PPA if you can. It really makes a lot more financial sense than purchasing. Buy the power, not the equipment. 0 down, and all the annoying stuff becomes someone else's problem. I needed some major roof work, but it wasn't apparent until after the contract was signed so the solar company did it for free. After 20 years you can tell the solar company to fuck off, they aren't going to come get your array. The array is resold as collateral backed security to faceless investors, and the solar company is only a loan servicer. No incentive.
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Considered this, but it is far from a risk-less alternative.

PPAs have annual rate increases that I believe are significantly higher than what you'll actually see from PG&E. That means your savings can erode significantly, and even exceed your current rates. That would leave you stuck with the option to purchase where you'll assuredly overpay for a cheaply spec'd and higher maintenance system (string inverter).

I also wouldn't underestimate the hassles of granting an easement to your roof. I'd think after 20 years my options would be renew, buy, or have a lien attached to my property.
 
i chose sunrun ppa, no increase in rates. no lien on my property. if i move, I transfer the contract to the new owner. they do not own my roof, i do not own teh panels or equip. if anybody is intrtersted I can send you the contract i signed
 
aminalmutha said:
That's my big question... what happens if you move? Do you have to pay the balance off? Or does the lease transfer to the new owner? If you're a buyer, what if you don't want that shit?
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My old neighbors bought PPA system and sold their house a few months back. Was just talking with our new neighbor and he didn't seem very happy about it. Said his option was to purchase or sign a new contract. Purchase price was too high so he signed the contract and it sounds like he was offered a pretty shitty deal.

In this case the new owner got screwed, but I'd expect the norm in the future will be forcing the seller to purchase the system before sale...at the inflated price
 
mlm said:
My old neighbors bought PPA system and sold their house a few months back. Was just talking with our new neighbor and he didn't seem very happy about it. Said his option was to purchase or sign a new contract. Purchase price was too high so he signed the contract and it sounds like he was offered a pretty shitty deal.

In this case the new owner got screwed, but I'd expect the norm in the future will be forcing the seller to purchase the system before sale...at the inflated price
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Well, it sounds like a more savvy buyer would have passed. Personally, were I a home buyer and that shit was on a house in which I was interested, I'd definitely negotiate the price down to the point that it was at least a wash. If they weren't interested in that, I'd pass. So, basically, they're making it harder to buy or sell a home. No frickin' way would I get into any sort of long term contract for solar, nor would I pay extra for it.
 
on my contract the new owners just take over the contract, there is like a $200 fee, but the contract says the same, same dollars and same end date
 
I got my PPA through Sungevity, and basically resells their installed arrays via Run Run's financing pipelines.

My kw/hr price basically fixed for life of lease at .16-.17, so around tier1 prices. Guaranteed output, output overages are mine to keep for free. Sungevity is accountable for all maintenance and has to true me up if the array ever underproduces. Contract is full transferrable to next owner.

At various time points, you can buy out all equipment for a rate determined by an independent appraiser. At termination of contract you can renew, buy the array at fair market value, or get it removed (I would opt for option C and use that as a basis for negotiating a very low purchase price since option C will cause them to lose money. the array equipment will have no resale value and require labor to remove.)

There is just no way it makes sense buying an array, when you can get a PPA like this.
 
mercurial said:
There is just no way it makes sense buying an array, when you can get a PPA like this, but I respect others may have different thresholds and variables I'm not privy of.
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FTFY, so you don't come across as arrogant.
 
aminalmutha said:
Well, it sounds like a more savvy buyer would have passed. Personally, were I a home buyer and that shit was on a house in which I was interested, I'd definitely negotiate the price down to the point that it was at least a wash. If they weren't interested in that, I'd pass. So, basically, they're making it harder to buy or sell a home. No frickin' way would I get into any sort of long term contract for solar, nor would I pay extra for it.
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my contract reduces the power bill for the house by a substantial percentage and it adds value to my house. Given today's tight real estate market, if you tried to pull that attitude you're just going to get a big "see ya!"
 
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