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SPLIT from Fatality on Skaggs - Bap

Split.

Unless authorized otherwise, or unless I am told otherwise, we will not be discussing Chi, or his situation in public out of respect to all parties involved, aside from saying that Chi is suspended for 30 days, for good cause, and by unanimous vote.

PM me directly with any specific questions.
 
I've been biting my tongue to say something in that thread, but out of respect for Ollie, I STFU.

I really can't understand every one's added bullshit to an RIP thread (this goes for the other RIP threads of late too). Have some respect for the dead and their family and friends.

Some of you keyboard cowboys have such a lack of class, it's sad. :(
 
}Dragon{ said:
I've been biting my tongue to say something in that thread, but out of respect for Ollie, I STFU.

I really can't understand every one's added bullshit to an RIP thread (this goes for the other RIP threads of late too). Have some respect for the dead and their family and friends.

Some of you keyboard cowboys have such a lack of class, it's sad. :(
Click to expand...


+1

Well said, I didn't say anything for the same reason.
 
After the split... a suggestion to the mods regarding memorial threads

I was going to post this in another thread but I think it bears more general discussion.

The bumper crop of memorial threads has brought out the worst in BARF. One thread in particular turned into a cesspool. I've been biting my tongue in that thread as have others. It became an embarrassment to BARF... and that ain't easy to do!

Now I'd like to make a suggestion. I propose the mods edit the subject line any thread that becomes a memorial and declare it a memorial thread. At that point, the standards for posting are more strict in regards to staying on-topic and respectful of the potential for family members reading. Any crash dissection, second guessing, bashing, etc can take place in another thread. The identification of the victim should NOT be specifically mentioned in that thread to preclude family members from finding them via searches. If the family finds them via further sleuthing, then it's their problem.

There *is* a value to discussing those aspects of riding that some might find difficult for family members to see. For better or worse, when we discuss the multitude of issues that inevitably come up after a crash there are things to be learned. I believe we can do so without unduly making things worse for the family.

There is also the value to those that are getting sick of memorial threads. It readily identifies a thread for them to skip. Something for everyone.
 
sounds reasonable to me... although I never get into the dissection of someone's fatal crash on a memorial thread.... I do think a cleaner thread for families might help BARF image.

And for those who need to slug out the details, a seperate thread makes sense
 
I think that sounds like a thoughtful idea, but raises other questions.


There is a lot of info to be gleaned from the mistakes of others, and there is no question about the value of the example of others in educating the naive or foolhardy.

While the "I told you so" responses have absolutely no business in a memorial thread, there really is no place on this forum for separate threads of that nature to be posted. Can't be in Crash Analysis if it's heresay or 2nd-hand acounts, can't start a separate thread relating to the same accident because it will bring too much heat by those that think casting "what-ifs" around is disrespectful to a fallen rider's memory.

So the way I see it, we need to solve two problems at a time, or none at all.

1. Some type of memorial section or stricter moderating of "memorial" threads, per above
2. Some sub-section of the Crash Analysis forum, a new section for pontificating on the mistakes of others, or a different type of stricter moderation for any "what-if" threads that are spawned by a memorial thread.

Or I could be full of shit. I have strong feelings of honoring the memory of the deceased, but I have conflicting feelings that are just as strong about learning from the mistakes of others and pointing out any reckless or careless behavior that may have contributed to their demise.

-Q!
 
merging with split thread. If this is a message for the mods, and a request for open discussion, let's keep it in the split so we can track it easier.
 
My thinking was to keep this arms-length distance from the thread to make it more of a general discussion thing, not exclusively part of THIS clusterf*ck. I know I almost didn't click on the split and I was done with the other one a LONG time ago.

Oh well.
 
I think that's a great suggestion. I know I expect to hear what you all really think in other discussions about the crash, but an RIP or memorial thread would be nice for those not so tech savy to be sent to, to look at and view. It would hopefully give a little more protection to the family and friends, but if those friends/family are fellow BARFers, you are probably still gonna have more arguments and hurt feelings. However, I still think that it's a better idea than what happened in Ollie's thread. :thumbup
 
I think that the split is a great idea!

Also, the analysis part of the split should be put into the Crash Analysis part of the forum. Those mods in there run a good tight ship and will keep it on-focus for it's purpose, namely understanding what happened so that other riders can learn from the tragedy and possibly resulting in some good if one or more people avoid future death or injury as a result of what they learned.

Speaking for myself, whenever I hear about a serious accident I give thought to the circumstances and how best to avoid a similar circumstance. I attribute this kind of thinking to my 32+ years of riding without a serious injury supplementing a certain amount of luck. There will always be risk involved with riding (or any activity that involves high kinetic energy (speed)) and anything that we can do to reduce the risks is a good thing.
 
A memorial page/feature is in the works, not a forum per se, but a place where we can return time and again to remember those no longer with us.
 
00ridgerunner00 said:
I can confirm, I was in the group. He told me he had maybe 10% front brake...metal on metal. And he was pushing it. It was a horrible scene.
Click to expand...

I really hope the CHP has read this and some people go to jail. If you knew someones bike is not up to par. Why in the hell would you ever let anyone ride it let alone fast.
Do you let your friends drive drunk too/

nweaver said:
WHAT THE FUCK??!!?!!!???

He had no front brake??!!!?

And did anybody who knew that try to stop him?
Click to expand...

spdt509 said:
+1.if some riders from the group knew and didnt intervene,that is seriously f-up.:(
Click to expand...

++10000000000000
 
750_sport said:
I really hope the CHP has read this and some people go to jail. If you knew someones bike is not up to par. Why in the hell would you ever let anyone ride it let alone fast.
Do you let your friends drive drunk too/





++10000000000000
Click to expand...

wow :mad:mad:mad:mad I just deleated my response to this out of respect for ollie... RIP
 
Last edited:
750_sport,
Your post does not belong in this particular thread. :mad A new thread was created/split by Bapistro...Look for that thread. (Right now, it's on page 2 of the General section.)



:rip Ollie.

Dear family members, friends, co-workers, and acquaintences: my thoughts are with you... :rose
 
Climber said:
I think that the split is a great idea!

Also, the analysis part of the split should be put into the Crash Analysis part of the forum. Those mods in there run a good tight ship and will keep it on-focus for it's purpose, namely understanding what happened so that other riders can learn from the tragedy and possibly resulting in some good if one or more people avoid future death or injury as a result of what they learned.

Speaking for myself, whenever I hear about a serious accident I give thought to the circumstances and how best to avoid a similar circumstance. I attribute this kind of thinking to my 32+ years of riding without a serious injury supplementing a certain amount of luck. There will always be risk involved with riding (or any activity that involves high kinetic energy (speed)) and anything that we can do to reduce the risks is a good thing.
Click to expand...

Although the split is good, the crash analysis discussion should stay in general.

Nobody READS crash analysis in comparison. And so much of the root cause is "being nice", not being forceful about correcting a known problem!
 
Well, that's just it. None of us are trained in crash reconstruction. None of us have inspected the bike -- pre- and post-crash. None of us really know whether Oliver's front brakes were shot. None of us know at which angle and speed he took that turn. We only know that speed was probably the contributing factor to his crash.

So we're left to speculate because he's not here to give answers. And what value does speculation have anyway?

The repeating message in General is "Take it to the track." Yet when I ride with more experienced riders, I can't and don't want to keep up with their blistering pace. And this past weekend, on Bear Creek Rd. and Grizzly Peak, I saw a bunch of riders putting their knees down on the asphalt and whizzing by me like I was standing still.

I hate to say this, but to me it seems riders are going to ride as fast as they want and the consequences to their speeding be damned. Because "it's" not going to happen to them.
 
nweaver said:
Nobody READS crash analysis in comparison. And so much of the root cause is "being nice", not being forceful about correcting a known problem!
Click to expand...

That's the thing-you didn't know this guy (or maybe you did but I'm thinking not so much.).
...when people gave his battered little Hawk a sideways glance it might be like him to say "oh...it's ok, it'd be better if it had more front brake" then just smile.
Or when people say he was over his head it might look like he was pushing that old bike too hard

The thing is, they found him in the center of the lane with his eyes wide open...that's pretty instant and not consistent with HIM plowing into the rail.
If you're analyzing then think, what knocked the dear boy off his bike?

Throwing stones and implying the other riders should go to jail isn't part of the learning process.
 
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