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Supermoto Suspension

timvr6

timvr6

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2002
Location
San Francisco
Moto(s)
2008 GSXR600
1999 KDX200
Anybody have any ideas on where to start for suspension setup on a XR650R setup for supermoto? It has 17" Excels, on a stock bike. Looking for advice on springs and valving, and whether or not lowering would be beneficial or ???
 
Generally people are not lowering thier bikes much lately. As for the spension- it depends a little on whether you want to send it out or not. If you're not sending it out, then you will need to slow down the compression a little, and slow down the rebound a lot. Many bikes need to go fully slow on the settings (all the way to the stops).

Often this enough for people, sometimes not, in which case there are a number of options.
 
Generally the suspension on these dirt bikes is way too stiff for Supermoto. You wil need to soften the fork springs and shock spring. The shim stacks will need to be changed and your compression and rebound settings will need to be adjusted accordingly. The shock will also need to be re-valved and shims stacks changed.

Race Tech makes great kits and they provide settings for you to start from.

You may also consider lowering the bike. This changes the ceneter of gravity and makes the bike much easier to turn and handle.
 
timvr6 said:
Anybody have any ideas on where to start for suspension setup on a XR650R setup for supermoto? It has 17" Excels, on a stock bike. Looking for advice on springs and valving, and whether or not lowering would be beneficial or ???
Click to expand...

I have a XR650R...

mine sits higher than most XR's with 17inch wheels due to the stiff springs....

it even sits about the same height of a stock XR with dirt wheels...:wtf

anyway, front, 5 click out from full hard compression and about 6 out from full hard on the rebound...

rear, 7 click out from full hard compression, and about 8 out from full hard rebound...

this is with stiffer springs so yours may vary....

before, the front was lowered while the rear was high which exiting corners very shaky....

at stock height, it made tight turns a bitch at high speed...

Over the weekend, I softened the preload on the rear which lowered the bike a bit and then raised the forks 5mm in the triple clamps to compensate....

so far it works good and quick steering but still stable on fast sweepers although I haven't tried it yet on tight turns.......
 
Bryan said:
Generally the suspension on these dirt bikes is way too stiff for Supermoto. You wil need to soften the fork springs and shock spring. The shim stacks will need to be changed and your compression and rebound settings will need to be adjusted accordingly. The shock will also need to be re-valved and shims stacks changed.

Race Tech makes great kits and they provide settings for you to start from.

You may also consider lowering the bike. This changes the ceneter of gravity and makes the bike much easier to turn and handle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I was thinking the exact opposite of what your suggesting. I thought that the suspension was a bit soft and the bike would dive too much when I was braking on the street. Traxxion suggests stiffening up the forks springs (from .43kg which is stock to .60kg fork springs)

Now I'm really confused as to which direction to go in.

SM610 said:
Generally people are not lowering thier bikes much lately. As for the spension- it depends a little on whether you want to send it out or not. If you're not sending it out, then you will need to slow down the compression a little, and slow down the rebound a lot. Many bikes need to go fully slow on the settings (all the way to the stops).

Often this enough for people, sometimes not, in which case there are a number of options.
Click to expand...

I've read this also, and am thinking about at least doing fork springs for my weight. Do you know of any website or any instructionals how where to start as far as shim stacks? I know alot of the suspension guys keep that info to themselves as that's their companys secret, but anything can help

Thanks for everyone's input...keep it coming!
 
Re: Re: Supermoto Suspension

V4 said:
I have a XR650R...

mine sits higher than most XR's with 17inch wheels due to the stiff springs....

it even sits about the same height of a stock XR with dirt wheels...:wtf

anyway, front, 5 click out from full hard compression and about 6 out from full hard on the rebound...

rear, 7 click out from full hard compression, and about 8 out from full hard rebound...

this is with stiffer springs so yours may vary....

before, the front was lowered while the rear was high which exiting corners very shaky....

at stock height, it made tight turns a bitch at high speed...

Over the weekend, I softened the preload on the rear which lowered the bike a bit and then raised the forks 5mm in the triple clamps to compensate....

so far it works good and quick steering but still stable on fast sweepers although I haven't tried it yet on tight turns.......
Click to expand...

Thanks!

What fork springs are you running now? How much do you weigh? I'm about 165lbs in street clothes and looking to make this a mainly street/commute/hooligan bike with
trackdays on the weekends.

Did you change the valving as well, or just the springs?
 
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just the springs...Eibach or something like that...

I weigh 200lbs....

I have stock valving although both front/rear does need more dampening....

I don't have any front end dive due to the springs and setting but I also shift my weight back when on the brakes...
 
.90

for your weight, you might be .80-.85...
 
I was looking at Traxxion's website and didn't see any fork springs for the 650R, do they make them. The highest spring rate for the R I have found is .49 made by either Racetech or Eibach. I would love to find someone that makes something higher.
 
froride1 said:
I was looking at Traxxion's website and didn't see any fork springs for the 650R, do they make them. The highest spring rate for the R I have found is .49 made by either Racetech or Eibach. I would love to find someone that makes something higher.
Click to expand...

I emailed them, and Mike Hardy (sales manager) emailed me back and said they can get them. It's not on their webpage, but he said they can get stiffer springs. They were suggesting around a .60kg front and a 850lb rear spring.

.80-.90kg seems a bit heavy for such a light bike. I have .85's in my trackbike which is quite a bit heavier.

Aftershocks said they can get them as well. Don't have them in stock but can get them in a couple days.
 
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Bryan said:
Generally the suspension on these dirt bikes is way too stiff for Supermoto. You wil need to soften the fork springs and shock spring.
Click to expand...


Is today Opposite Day and nobody told me?:laughing Never seen a good supermoto bike with SOFTER suspension, maybe you meant something else?:confused Almost without question these bikes get stiffer and slower. This is the difference between our Husaberg FS bikes(SM) and the (FE)enduros. The WP susp. is stiffer and slower on the SM models right out of the box.


The one exception would be if you weighed 85 lbs. with your leathers on, and were riding a big bike (450 and up).
 
:loco

after asking different people the same thing about suspension setup, everyone seems to have different answers....

people from street/roadracing/track day enthusiasts seem to favor the stiffer set up which they base the "feel" of their street machines while those from dirt seems to favor more softer settings...

some like to lower their bikes while others like sitting high....

I don't think there's any thing yet set in stone of what is the correct setup....just gotta experiment and work what's best or work with what ya have to your riding style...:laughing
 
As to whether or not there is a correct set up set in stone, again, it's about WHERE and HOW you are going to ride. If you are commuting/never going to the track- then there is quite a bit of leeway. Stock settings might do fine for some. WRONG might not even get noticed.

At the track is another story. Wrong is immediatly apparent. It's very close to "in stone". Rebound needs to be WAY slower than "dirt settings". If it's not, then the bike will compress/rebound/compress/rebound as you accelorate out of sharp corners. It will also do the same when you start to "back it in". The lowered bikes drag footpegs so much that it limits lean angle. On this there is there is little debate.

My take on it is this-if someone is asking about susp settings, then they are probably interrested in a higher level of performance. If that is true, then it is easy to know which direction to go.

Also, I find that it's more acurate to describe DAMPING (compression and rebound) as "faster"-less damping, or "slower"-more damping. A spring can be "harder" or "softer". It just makes describing what you are talking about more clear, and separates the different functions.
 
So let's say for example, my plan is to have this be my weekend trackday machine with some commuting tossed in the middle. I'm willing to give up some comfort for better track performance.

I'm assuming the fork/shock springs need to be "harder" and the damping "slower" but how much so? I've been given settings as low as .50 in the front to as high as .90 and about 600lb to 850lb in the rear?!?!?
 
I know many XR650R riders, but few that come out to the track, so with this bike in particular, it might be a good idea to come out to Stockton this Sunday with the bike in stock trim for some base info. Bring a few tools so that you can fiddle with the clickers. It is possible that you could get what you want with what you have. There is a very good chance that other XRR riders will be there (Sunday track days are rare) and you can see what they have done and if they think it was worth it. As your skills increase, so will the need for better suspension/tires.

The track is like a dyno for your suspension, do some laps -click click, do some more laps -clickity click-better!! Do some more laps....better again!!! And so on... It will not be hard to get it as good as it can be in 2 or 3 sessions, then you will really know what to do next.


Something else that has not been mentioned- tires. What kind does the bike have? I once spent 2 months trying to tune out HORRIBLE chatter in the front with the suspension. Freekin Doug Chandler tried to help but was stumped. Finally, he said to change tires to the expensive Dunlop slicks, which I didn't want to do because I'd just bought some Maxxis slicks. He was right !!! Sometimes you have to get nutty!:laughing
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Not sure if I can make it this Sunday, but I'm definitely going to try.
 
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