BaSSiUsMaXiMouS
New member
are you going to coat the inside of the tank with something? seems like gas would do something to a beautiful work of art 
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SV Carbon Tank project for Zoran
- Thread starter tygaboy
- Start date
Actually, the epoxy stands up to gas just fine. I have examples where a tank has been in service for years with no problems.BaSSiUsMaXiMouS said:are you going to coat the inside of the tank with something? seems like gas would do something to a beautiful work of art
That said, look back in this thread where I made the bottom piece. You'll see I use POR-15 tank sealer - just as an insurance policy. I'll be coating the inside of the top before bonding the top and bottom.
Zierra said:
The 'glue' is simply the same epoxy with the filler added so, yes, it also holds up to gas. But again, as insurance, I'll be coating the inside of the top, then bonding the top to the bottom and as a final setp, I'll pour a small amount of the tank sealer into the tank and roll it around to cover the 'top-to-bottom' joint.
Got to Sears (the race track, not the department store) this morning and met up with Zoran to determine the needed mounting brackets. He's running a race subframe so we needed to agree on how he wanted/needed the rear mount to work and I had to be sure I installed the vent outlet such that it didn't interfere with anything. So I dragged a few scraps of sheet aluminum with me and one of them was already bent at the perfect angle to serve as the mold for the rear mount... Karma smiles upon the project on a fine Saturday morning.
Even better is the fact the my SV/MV tank front mount mold is a perfect fit! How'd that happen? Simple - remember, the underside of my SV/MV tank is the same as a stock SV tank. Nothing like reusability. So what you see here is my existing front mount mold and the 'quick and dirty' reat mount mold. The strange look to the front mold is because, in an effort to make a sturdy mold, I used a layer of 'core mat'. It's essentially a thick, fairly porous material that soaks up a LOT of epoxy. Once it cures, this part ain't going anywhere. Very stiff.
Even better is the fact the my SV/MV tank front mount mold is a perfect fit! How'd that happen? Simple - remember, the underside of my SV/MV tank is the same as a stock SV tank. Nothing like reusability. So what you see here is my existing front mount mold and the 'quick and dirty' reat mount mold. The strange look to the front mold is because, in an effort to make a sturdy mold, I used a layer of 'core mat'. It's essentially a thick, fairly porous material that soaks up a LOT of epoxy. Once it cures, this part ain't going anywhere. Very stiff.
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There is a bit of a step to the front mold so to combat the possibility of the carbon trying to 'bridge' and not laying down nicely into that step. I mixed a bit of the filler into the epoxy to create paste that I can use to fair in the step so that the carbon doesn't have to conform to as tight a corner. But heaven forbid we have a blob of cream colored goo messing up our nice finish!
No problem, I just add some black tint to the mixture! Then spread a bit into the corner and we're all set to lay up the part.
As an aside - this 'fill in the tricky bits with filler' is a fairly common technique. Look at some of the MotoGP parts and you'll see...
And remember, the part we pull from the front mold will need to be shaped to match the stock SV front tank mount. You'll see that as I finish up the part. So I could have spent more time making a 'closer to the finished product' mold but I'd still have to final shape the part...so why bother with a fancier mold? I opted to go this route.
Also, I've hot glued the molds to a wooden stand to make the layup and cure easier to handle.
No problem, I just add some black tint to the mixture! Then spread a bit into the corner and we're all set to lay up the part.
As an aside - this 'fill in the tricky bits with filler' is a fairly common technique. Look at some of the MotoGP parts and you'll see...
And remember, the part we pull from the front mold will need to be shaped to match the stock SV front tank mount. You'll see that as I finish up the part. So I could have spent more time making a 'closer to the finished product' mold but I'd still have to final shape the part...so why bother with a fancier mold? I opted to go this route.
Also, I've hot glued the molds to a wooden stand to make the layup and cure easier to handle.
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Now's a good time to sandwich in the petcock plate...a few layers of carbon and we're all set. I only did the one side since once I bond the top to the bottom, the overlap between the two parts will take care of sandwiching the other side. Simple, no?
Here are the mounts, all layed up. Also pictured is the metal roller that I use to consolidate the layup. This helps to compact the layers so we use less epoxy - remember, parts are strongest/lightest when the ratio of epoxy to fabric is optimized. In a non-vacuum bagging situation, like this one, the roller technique helps us get as close as possible.
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While the mounts are curing, let's mount the gas cap. Here you can see the area I had machined around the outer perimiter. It was less than about 1/2 this width - well, it had a step in it that we needed to remove so the available bonding area would be sufficient to bond to the tank. Plus the step kept it from sitting nice and flush on the tank. Thanks again to Kevin Ostrom for the quick turn around!
(See that's a subtle joke...he had to mount this on a lathe...which spins...Quick 'turn around'? Get it...?)
OK, apparently epoxy fumes ARE bad for you...
(See that's a subtle joke...he had to mount this on a lathe...which spins...Quick 'turn around'? Get it...?)
OK, apparently epoxy fumes ARE bad for you...
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Mix up some epoxy, add filler until the consistency is where we want it, goo up the area around where the cap is going, set the cap in and push it home!
The epoxy/filler squishes out on top and bottom, ensuring we have a nice seal.
The epoxy/filler squishes out on top and bottom, ensuring we have a nice seal.
Then, a bit of epoxy/filler on the mounting bolts - remember, these don't bolt to anything, in our application, they're just cosmetic. We'll, they do plug the holes that would otherwise be there...
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A bit of Acetone on a rag to wipe up the excess around the cap and any that oozed up around the bolts and we're home and dry!
To ensure we get a nice snug bond, Let's set a couple big-ass sockets on the cap to be sure it stays well pressed to the tank during the cure.
Here you can see how the finished top of the tank will look. Pretty nice, wouldn't you say?
Tomorrow, I'll finish the vent system, coat the inside with tank sealer and with a bit of luck, bond the top and bottom together!! Major step as, for the first time since we began this project, we'll actually have something that will hold gas which means, after all this time and effort, we can well and truly call it a 'tank'.
Can I get a 'Oh YEAH!'?
To ensure we get a nice snug bond, Let's set a couple big-ass sockets on the cap to be sure it stays well pressed to the tank during the cure.
Here you can see how the finished top of the tank will look. Pretty nice, wouldn't you say?
Tomorrow, I'll finish the vent system, coat the inside with tank sealer and with a bit of luck, bond the top and bottom together!! Major step as, for the first time since we began this project, we'll actually have something that will hold gas which means, after all this time and effort, we can well and truly call it a 'tank'.
Can I get a 'Oh YEAH!'?
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bryan_d
New member
SICK
GetaGripGreg
Active member
tygaboy said:
And someday, down the road... a future owner will try removing the bolts to take out the filler... Doh!
Sweet work. Looking forward to seeing the final part.
unraveled
New member
I just found this thread and what amazing work you've done!
When I was younger and still living in So. Cal. I used to help a friend build kayaks, and I'm now kind of inspired to start playing with this stuff again. Thanks for all the time and effort to share this with the community!
-Brent
When I was younger and still living in So. Cal. I used to help a friend build kayaks, and I'm now kind of inspired to start playing with this stuff again. Thanks for all the time and effort to share this with the community!
-Brent
Well, I got back from a nice dinner out with my wife and friends and, wonder of wonders, ended up back in the shop. Started thinking about an additional method of securing the cap. Turns out I want those cap bolts after all. I made up two little carbon strips that have a slight bend to them. By using the gas cap bolts, we end up with a couple 'locking wings' that bolt to the gas cap and extend out into the tank and pull the cap down even more securely. Then, I added a couple layers of carbon that will add even more holding power. In all, this cap assembly shouldn't be going anywhere.
And since I had all the supplies out and spare epoxy just sitting there, I figured we might as well finish up the vent system.
We bond the vent cap to the tank top, just behind the gas cap - that's the highest point in the tank and other than splashing, gas doesn't get up there. I won't go into the design of the vent other than to say it works in the stock tank and it'll work here, too.
Then, having previously bent the copper tube so it'll touch the side of the tank and route out the back, we bond the tube to the side and strengthen it with a few layers of carbon. Then, just goo up around the tube where it exits the rear of the tank. You've already realized I drilled a suitable hole there earlier...
One word of caution: CHECK THAT THE VENT SYSTEM DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE FITMENT OF THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK.
One guess why I mention this in uppercase.
Yup, I had the line all bent and the entire system all goo'd up in place to cure and I thought, "Hmmm, I better check to see that everthing clears..."
Good thing I did - 'cuz it didn't!
No biggie since nothing had even started to set up. But I had to pull it all out, bend the copper into a totally different shape and redo the fitting of everything.
Like you've always heard: Measure twice, goo once.
But all's well now. And there is only one more pic to come of the inside of the tank - when I apply the sealer. Then it's time to bond top to bottom. Should have that all done tomorrow.
We bond the vent cap to the tank top, just behind the gas cap - that's the highest point in the tank and other than splashing, gas doesn't get up there. I won't go into the design of the vent other than to say it works in the stock tank and it'll work here, too.
Then, having previously bent the copper tube so it'll touch the side of the tank and route out the back, we bond the tube to the side and strengthen it with a few layers of carbon. Then, just goo up around the tube where it exits the rear of the tank. You've already realized I drilled a suitable hole there earlier...
One word of caution: CHECK THAT THE VENT SYSTEM DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE FITMENT OF THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK.
One guess why I mention this in uppercase.
Yup, I had the line all bent and the entire system all goo'd up in place to cure and I thought, "Hmmm, I better check to see that everthing clears..."
Good thing I did - 'cuz it didn't!
No biggie since nothing had even started to set up. But I had to pull it all out, bend the copper into a totally different shape and redo the fitting of everything.
Like you've always heard: Measure twice, goo once.
But all's well now. And there is only one more pic to come of the inside of the tank - when I apply the sealer. Then it's time to bond top to bottom. Should have that all done tomorrow.
I gotta get a life - in the shop until about 11:30 last night, back out there at 6:30 this morning. Good thing this is almost done!
As mentioned, we want to ensure we have no issues with leaks. Surprising as it sounds, my first SV/MV tank passed gas , er, weeped gas through its side. I couldn't believe it. Leaking through five layers of cured composites? WTF? It had to be something I did or didn't do. That's when I became friends with tank sealers. Saved my bacon on that tank, let me tell you.
In any case, I've greatly improved my layup skills and I'm confident this tank doesn't really need it, but I'm a fan of 'let's be sure, shall we?' so on goes a layer of POR-15 gas tank sealer. Just paint it on with a cheapy disposable brush, same as we use for the epoxy work.
BTW, why am I confident this wouldn't have leaked? I filled it with water when it first came out of the mold and it passed the 'doesn't leak' test!
One sealed tank ready to be closed up and put into service.
As mentioned, we want to ensure we have no issues with leaks. Surprising as it sounds, my first SV/MV tank passed gas
, er, weeped gas through its side. I couldn't believe it. Leaking through five layers of cured composites? WTF? It had to be something I did or didn't do. That's when I became friends with tank sealers. Saved my bacon on that tank, let me tell you. In any case, I've greatly improved my layup skills and I'm confident this tank doesn't really need it, but I'm a fan of 'let's be sure, shall we?' so on goes a layer of POR-15 gas tank sealer. Just paint it on with a cheapy disposable brush, same as we use for the epoxy work.
BTW, why am I confident this wouldn't have leaked? I filled it with water when it first came out of the mold and it passed the 'doesn't leak' test!
One sealed tank ready to be closed up and put into service.
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The tank sealer is all but set up so we're OK to start working with the tank without having to worry about that stuff getting anywhere we don't want it.
First, cover the outside of the tank to prevent any stray epoxy from getting on it. Some handy packing paper and magic blue tape and that's that. You can also see how the vent tube exits the rear of the tank. A bit of forethought and we end up with a design that lets us mount the bottom without having to worry about the vent exit getting in the way.
First, cover the outside of the tank to prevent any stray epoxy from getting on it. Some handy packing paper and magic blue tape and that's that. You can also see how the vent tube exits the rear of the tank. A bit of forethought and we end up with a design that lets us mount the bottom without having to worry about the vent exit getting in the way.
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