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Taser use correct? What do you think?

Since Sept. of 1999, there have been 397+ taser deaths in the United states.....

...and an additional 2,000 non-TASER & non-firearms related police custody deaths over that same time period.

Let me quote this again, because maybe you missed it. The US Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics report showed no apparent statistical change in the number of deaths nationwide after the introduction of Tasers. :wow:shocker

Maybe I can twist statistics just like SurfAwave69. I would be willing to bet that in almost all of the 2,000+ in custody police deaths listed above, emergency medical services (EMS) were called to the scene to provide care for the prisoner. So over the last decade, there have been over 2,000 EMS related deaths of people in police custody. We've gotta do something about this! It is high time to prohibit the police from calling EMS I say!!! An outrage!!! :rofl
 
Since Sept. of 1999, there have been 397+ taser deaths in the United states.....

Kind of like the media...make the statement for attention, but avoid the details 'cause they certainly won't stand up under reveiw.
 
I've got the solution!

How about we remove all the tools from our belts except a stick, gun and handcuffs. If you resist, I get to pound you with a hardwood stick. If you start to win, then I escalate the force to my only other option, my firearm.

Simple as that. No more whining about the Taser this or the OC that, the baton this or the bean bag shotgun that, the less lethal this or the non-lethal that. It's simple. You fight, I hit you with a big wooden stick. You start to win, I shoot you. You grab any kind of weapon when you begin to fight? I shoot.

Simple. No more "coulda shoulda woulda," or "I wish they woulda used this" or "that was excessive" etc. etc. crap.

Would that suit the citizens better? Somehow I highly doubt it.
 
Kind of like the media...make the statement for attention, but avoid the details 'cause they certainly won't stand up under reveiw.


Read my previous posts, no need to repeat them....


Maybe I can twist statistics just like SurfAwave69.

:confused...in what way are they twisted?
 
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I've got the solution!

How about we remove all the tools from our belts except a stick, gun and handcuffs. If you resist, I get to pound you with a hardwood stick. If you start to win, then I escalate the force to my only other option, my firearm.

Simple as that. No more whining about the Taser this or the OC that, the baton this or the bean bag shotgun that, the less lethal this or the non-lethal that. It's simple. You fight, I hit you with a big wooden stick. You start to win, I shoot you. You grab any kind of weapon when you begin to fight? I shoot.

Simple. No more "coulda shoulda woulda," or "I wish they woulda used this" or "that was excessive" etc. etc. crap.

Would that suit the citizens better? Somehow I highly doubt it.

In terms of this man crying; this is passive resistance. If you use force like that and someone is passively resisting, you're violating their rights.

Being too quick to use force (especially with a taser) is a huge issue.
 
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Read my previous posts, no need to repeat them....




:confused...in what way are they twisted?

You are suggesting a causal relationship between TASER use and deaths with no proof. I am at least presenting circumstancial evidence that deaths have not increased since the introduction of widespread TASER use by police. They would have died anyways. How many deceased did not have drugs in their systems? Sorry, you lose. :twofinger
 
Since the introduction of sunblocker, there has been a statistical increase in skin cancer. Thus skin blocker causes skin cancer. ( Actually better diagnosis and lifestyle changes are probably responsible for the increase, but statistics don't lie. Sunblocker causes skin cancer.)
 
Read my previous posts, no need to repeat them....




:confused...in what way are they twisted?

SurfAwave69, when you got your journalism degree, didn't it include a course on statistics and a course on critical thinking? Are you just ignoring what you've been taught?

(And if it didn't, shit, that really explains modern journalism!)
 
he needed his ass tased on principle alone.30-40 year old dude crying and throwing a fit like a three year old.
 
SurfAwave69, when you got your journalism degree, didn't it include a course on statistics and a course on critical thinking? Are you just ignoring what you've been taught?

(And if it didn't, shit, that really explains modern journalism!)


Journalism degree? Never said that's what my major was...you're assuming.

The statistics I provided were all proven; read them. Especially the ACLU's look into SJPD and their taser policy....
 
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Don't flush the toilet yet, look at the statistics attached to the report.

So what's your point anyways? You haven't proven a thing, by the way. Do you want to see TASERS taken away from police? You would rather have an increase in baton use (not that it is a bad tool) causing more injuries and broken bones to suspects and officers? You would rather see an increase in police shootings?

A few years ago, we had a sergeant at our department TASER a guy holding a gun to his head while sitting in a car. The situation could have easily escalated into a shooting, but the sergeant saved the man's life by use of the TASER.

TASERs are not the perfect fix-all tool and they do not work the way they are supposed to all of the time. However, it would be foolish to suggest banning them based on bad or unproven science. It would also be foolish to restrict them to deadly force situations where they would rarely be used and do nothing to prevent injuries to officers and suspects.
 
Look, I appreciate police and what they do for our (the public) safety. Without them, there would be chaos.

In terms of the usage, I think they should be on every officers belt, but used sparingly. In my opinion, some officers are too quick to use them (considering the consequences). They should be a last resort to using a pistol; the statistics with taser use show a substantial potential for death. Departments have guidelines for using a taser, and if an officer abuses those guidelines, there should be consequences (not just a 'slap on the wrist') to set a good example. (the video which started this thread is a glaring example of misuse).
 
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SurfAwave69, the statistics do NOT show an increased substantial potential for death. Just the opposite, in fact, with NO statistical increase in non-firearm custody death rates since the introduction of TASERS. You don't seem to understand what a causal relationship is and could benefit from a class in statistics.
 
JPM, you should read ACLU's 'Stun Gun Fallacy'.... It will help you put some bias aside....

Here's a taste....






....there's more, you should read it.

I finally did read it. It's a bit outdated. Here's a synopsis of it's points:

  • The danger of tasers is not yet well studied.
  • Anectodal evidence suggests they may not be fully safe.
  • We should be more conservative until we know.
  • Training should reflect this.

The paper is written in an emotional style that I particularly dislike...it's an appeal to the heart, not the brain. An appeal to the heart is appropriate at times...just not when it comes to policy. However, that's an ad hominem attack on the paper itself. And, for the same reason, I'm ignoring the sections in the paper about Taser, International, as that, too, would be ad hominem. (The ACLU is correct in using this sort of a construction for questioning Taser International's training. It is not relevant to the safety of the weapon.)

It is better studied now. JPM linked the latest. The "clearance" it gets from the actual study isn't quite as squeaky clean as the article suggests. Clearly, those writing the article have a different bias than those in the ACLU! The study confirmed that the taser has never been the primary cause of death in cases where it could be well studied. It did not say with certainty that it cannot contribute to death, but it did indicate that even if it does, it's very rare.

That does not mean that we're always using it as we should. It's still a painful tool to gain compliance. It still produces injuries. (Always tiny ones from the barbs, but also cuts, scrapes, bruises, mostly from falling, and strains and fractures in more severe cases from the muscle contractions.) So, there's still room for debate on what situations this tool is appropriate for.

In the case of this man and of tragic case of the man on the ledge, the consensus has been that it's not appropriate. The ledge-man's consensus was very clear from everyone...there just wasn't much to discuss once all the relevant points came out. This contributed to locking the thread: not only would it have been distasteful to continue, it would have been pointless. This one is less clear. Nearly everyone has indicated that the three shocks were over the line, including the LEO's. There's been debate about whether the first one was also over the line. Surprisingly, there's been little debate about the actual issue being decided by the court: was the action potentially criminal. The consensus seems to be that, no, it wasn't.

Don't flush the toilet yet, look at the statistics attached to the report.


I've been watching this thread, and I posted the latest MEDICAL study done on tasers, and have seen nothing that shows different that is not a lot of speculation and conjecture. The ACLU report is filled with a lot of “what ifs”, “maybes”, and “could be”, speculations as pointed out by another poster. Also it does not have RECENT data provided by a MEDICAL STUDY. You can argue old studies all you want, but remember there was scientific documentation at one time the earth was flat. And if you have to have heart surgery I hope the doctor is not going by medical books and documentation from 5 or 10 years ago.
 
What you're failing to reply to is the misuse of the taser. Please read this again and then reply...

In terms of the usage, I think they should be on every officers belt, but used sparingly. In my opinion, some officers are too quick to use them (considering the consequences). They should be a last resort to using a pistol; the statistics with taser use show a substantial potential for death. Departments have guidelines for using a taser, and if an officer abuses those guidelines, there should be consequences (not just a 'slap on the wrist') to set a good example. (the video which started this thread is a glaring example of misuse).

A lack of taser regulation threatens lives (plus, abuse if the suspect isn't a physical threat to anyone).

Taser International ( a large manufacturer of tasers ) promotes the Taser as a safer weapon for dealing with critical situations. However, there have been many accounts of Taser use that shows it may be used in ways not envisioned by the manufacturer.
 
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Why? So that we won't want to use them anymore? Might as well leave them at the station when we go out for the day at that point.

So you're saying you don't use them correctly, and want to use them with impunity?

Here is an example of correct taser use (dog attack):

[youtube]KWFBp34zS6E[/youtube]
 
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