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The Analyists are Wrong About Why Miienials Don't Buy Harleys

Learn what torque is and then you can have a seat at the grown up table and talk.

No thanks, Harley's are still trash. Is their lack of suspension travel a tuning thing as well? I guess bottoming out is a cool thing to do.
 
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I see you have an SV650. Therefore, horsepower is not king. :twofinger

Well I didn't start out with the king but with a squire :twofinger

It's torque that is king. Horsepower is queen and does not exist without torque.

One of my favorite examples of the King is when Panoz was kicking Porsche, Ferrari, etc, asses with their American V8. It was a gas to listen to it rumble by at 4800 rpm ahead of the screaming Euro trash. :laughing

I rarely use the BMW h.p. on the street. It doesn't even start until about 7k. It is best between 10 to 12 k. But that seems rather "racy" for normal street riding, don't you think, since you have one?

Agreed, when I said HP was king I was referring to the equation in total rather than HP as a variable.

Agreed^2, 10k-12krpm is the good stuff.

Agreed^3, 99% of people are using less than 50hp on the street. I maximize my power curve on the street (inline 4)...rarely? Maybe not rarely, but I could definitely do it more than I do :laughing

Harley is very good at what it does. Maybe what Harley does will one day align with what I do, but Harley will need to change to fit me. I'm not changing my preferences to fit a Harley.:ride
 
...but H-D is the best run manufactuer and the best marketing company in the motorcycle industry, by a mile.

People used to say that about Eastman Kodak in photography too.

But when digital imaging came (something Kodak knew all about but did nothing much with) Kodak failed. Too little too late.

You cannot stay stable within your existing customer base in a changing world and survive. Harley better get with the future. They may have been the best marketing company in the motorcycle industry (so was Kodak. so was Pan American). Operative words "have been."

They still have time. Maybe.....
 
Harley is very good at what it does. Maybe what Harley does will one day align with what I do, but Harley will need to change to fit me. I'm not changing my preferences to fit a Harley.:ride

If I was a senior exec at HD, this statement would cause me a very big moment.
 
No thanks, Harley's are still trash. Is their lack of suspension travel a tuning thing as well? I guess bottoming out is a cool thing to do.

It would be nice to have more travel, but it takes the bikes in a direction they don't want to go. For starters, the long and low look is what sells. Even at the expense of rear travel. Some owners lower the bikes even more. Secondly, one thing that make H-D appeal to more riders is their low seat heights. Harleys are heavy. People get a bit nervous about operating a heavy motorcycle that they can't flat foot at a stoplight. Just about everything in the H-D lineup has a seat height of a pretty low 26". Would more travel make them ride better? Sure. But do they really need it? The FL series tour bikes have a pitiful ~2" of travel in the rear. But most riders aren't running a Road Glide in the Dakar rally or railing them around corners trying to hang with sportbikes. They primarily just...well...cruise. Boulevards and highways. Potholes suck even if you have an adventure bike with sky high suspension. Don't want to bottom out on your Road Glide? Avoid potholes.

Right tool for the right job. A modern sportbike with 4.5" travel front and rear is great to rip around a backroad with. But if I wanted to take a weekend trip to Napa or wherever with the wife, 2" travel or not, a big Electra Glide would be a far better choice.
 
. But if I wanted to take a weekend trip to Napa or wherever with the wife, 2" travel or not, a big Electra Glide would be a far better choice.

Actually a Goldwing or FJR, BMW K whatever would be an infinitely better choice...but on the suspension front HD guys really do care about it and most know it sucks from the factory.

When the new M8 came out they went to KYB suspension on the touring bikes and everyone said it was a big improvement.
 
I'm a millennial and I wont buy one for several reasons:

1) slow piece of shit with old tech (ive owned one, dont want to hear about how you wasted 20k making it able to compete with a quick sport touring rider....
2) you older generations fucked the image up and now everyone HATES harley riders. Its like throwing up a flag that says im insecure and scared, look at my big bad bike cuz I'm a big bad biker......to quote south park, "fags"


Addressing millennials and new bikes. I own 3, one of which I bought brand new. Most millennial dont buy new because of dealer fees and how cheap the used market is.

I generally share that sentiment, but bought a new R1 that was leftover for a steal and definitely got more value than the used. Used with 7k miles they are selling for what I got it for brand new, no abuse from previous owner etc.

Millennials also tend not to buy new bikes because they dont tend to manage their money well, must studies show that they are not saving for retirement. Additionally alot of them are saddled with student loan debt because they thought it was a good idea to major in gender studies.....

buying one generation old from some tool who bought to much bike to handle and only put 3-8k miles on it in 4-7 years is the way to go.
 
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Actually a Goldwing or FJR, BMW K whatever would be an infinitely better choice...but on the suspension front HD guys really do care about it and most know it sucks from the factory.

When the new M8 came out they went to KYB suspension on the touring bikes and everyone said it was a big improvement.

In my 20's I got to ride an unbelievable assortment of sportbikes and standards. But never a v twin until I got a RC51. After that bike, I was hooked on the v twin. It's only fitting that the Harley I ride right now has a v twin derived from the VR1000 superbike that attempted to compete with the RC51 back then.

I am not that much of a stooge. I am positive that a BMW K1600GTL or a Goldwing are technically superior bikes in just about every way (except for maybe gas mileage?). Ride better, handle better, accelerate and stop better, better weather/wind protection, you get the point.

Those other bikes are great touring bikes. But they don't go potato-potato. I test rode a new Electra Glide with the M8. Rode plenty fine to me. I'm gonna test ride the Indian Roadmaster soon just to compare, but no matter what I am sticking with a big twin tourer.
 
Actually I've seen many millenials on new Harleys. I've also seen them on other new motorcycles and even 20 year old Japanese bikes.
 
I'm agreeing with TheRob here on this one
Out of all the street and race bikes I've had in close to 50 years of riding, twins have always been my favorites. And it could be a parallel, V, L tandem, smoker or stroker.Im saddened by the fall of the EBR which was going to be my next bike. With only a Spagetti Moto still making high performance twins, I'll just stick with my XB. It might be slow but it's been bullit proof.
I like buying new and teaching the beast MY commands
 
The Revzilla review said the Street Rod fixed the fit, finish and braking power issues of the earlier Street bikes. (edit; obviously in the context of the bike's price point.)

/shrug

There's no way I'd buy a Street Rod over a BMW RNineT Pure, a Ducati Scrambler or one of those Triumphs with the fake carbs, but it clearly seems like a step in the right direction to me.

You basically got to the point. Even if the Street Rod is a good bike. It's in a very competitive market and a lot of the millennial generation don't care about their brand, or even actively dislike it.
 
Paging Fish to the Hardley phone...

Fish would probably say that the XR1200 is tuned for torque...as you can see below it makes 70ft-lb of torque by 3000rpm...

dynoaleksey.jpg


It's been a while since we've had a good old Harley's suck thread! I'm so out of practice with my defenses, too.

You made a great point with your comment regarding how good HD is at being HD. My bike is sort of an anomaly among the breed, but I built it because I wanted a Harley to do more. As far as the $20k to make it keep up with a S/T bike, well... I think I have less than $10k total in my bike, but i'm an exception because I built it myself. The lame ass T shirt that says "If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand" is absolutely true. I'm by no means a purist, and I really appreciate how good other bikes are at what they do. I honestly think the Goldwing is the best touring bike ever. I mean Ever. The FJR wins as my 3rd bike, and I still think the DL1000 is the most versatile Motorcycle ever made. But none of those bikes will do what a Harley does. My personal shit pile will leave a black strip on corner exit while destroying both the self esteem and eardrums of whatever supersport squid I feel like fucking with. That's just not something that you can do with any bike. You need a really shitty bike to dispense butt-hurt with as much ease as the FXR does.

The Millennial thing is honestly just a thing. None of us have any skin in the game if they buy iPhones or catered experiences. If they change their tune and throw money at motorcycles, the market they drive won't do the majority of the fart preservation suit wearing masses any good anyways.

With regards to the used market, the preponderance of HD's compared to other marques is probably pretty close to the ratio of new bikes sold. Anecdotally, more perfectly good super sports probably get sold private party, because they tend to scare new riders. Not many Harley people get scared of the power.
 
"Harley-Davidson Inc. shares fell sharply on plans to make and ship fewer motorcycles this year amid a sharp drop in retail sales." - today. FYI.
 
While I don't have interest in a Harley living here, if I lived in Hawaii, or New Hampshire, LV or NH or Florida or some other place without curvey Mtn. Roads - An HD might be the right tool for the job.

I've rented them in several places around the country (most of the above)and they were perfect for cruising around.

On the other hand, if I lived in those areas I might not even have a street bike because that is too boring.

The culture with having an HD is changing too. And that's the real issue affecting every fraternal organization- they are all declining thanks to urbanization and Facebook or other on line social interaction replacing F2F.
 
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At least to me, that article is spot on. Understand I'm talking new Harleys, I get the classic and custom segment is a totally different story. Like the article says I don't see HD as being a better bike than any other bike on the market and in many cases not as capable, but you're paying double or triple because it says Harley. In other words, you're paying for the image. People can say the same about the Italian brands, but at least they offer top tier or par for the segment performance along with that name.

I did like the VROD and the XR1200, but not enough to shelll out the money for one.
 
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