VicTim
VMCSF
I think it's a good thing for Harley. Their sales have been declining slightly year after year for awhile. They are upping their game in the face of Indian and Victory. Everybody wins imho.
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The Milwaukee Eight-first new H-D engine in like 15 years
- Thread starter TheRobSJ
- Start date
corndog67
Pissant Squid
1870ccs. Probably pushing 70hp, instead of the 64hp of the current big twin.
VicTim
VMCSF
Horsepower was mentioned in the article, it's not 70. You should read it.
Blankpage
alien
Harley is an awesome around town bike. I'd never would have believed it until I rode one.
TheRobSJ
May lose 10mm sockets if distracted
No I really meant it's the first new engine in 15 years.
When the Twin Cam went from 88 to 96 and again to 103 nobody went "omg it's a new engine."
Just the same way it's not a new engine when the took the Revolution (liquid cooled V-Rod engine) that came out fifteen years ago and spawned the Revolution X derivative a few years ago for the abysmal H-D Street 500/750.
70 hp, 75 hp....for a bike that weighs 850 lbs, who cares? Harley is about cruisin' in style and comfort, not acceleration.
Harley could keep the same engine from 2005, never change it, charge $30,000 for it, and lots of people would still buy it. With Harley it's never about performance. Other factors at work here.
Harley could keep the same engine from 2005, never change it, charge $30,000 for it, and lots of people would still buy it. With Harley it's never about performance. Other factors at work here.
2strokeYardSale
Moab on my mind
They introduce an 8V engine, which would hint at performance and their intro video has their style & design guy. And he doesn't talk about torque, horsepower, reliability, or anything like that, he talks about how the air cleaner looks, how the heads look, etc.
I'm sure they're crying all the way to the bank while the rest of us are laughing at them.
I'm sure they're crying all the way to the bank while the rest of us are laughing at them.
Tharkûn
Freeway Moderator
Harley's whole market share is 'behind', they're simply selling their brand. I swear my 103 had a carb stumble tuned into the ECU. The article even says it themselves, they nearly got rid of all the vibration with the new counterbalancer and testers said it didn't feel like a Harley so they tuned it back a bit.
Their biggest problem is suspension and brakes, which leads me to another thread I need to make soon about the bike that changed my perception of Harley's. However even stock, the chassis of their tour bikes has advanced quite significantly since say, 2010ish, the 13 was the first bike we got and the 14-16 have better chassis also, I'm actually interested to ride the 17 and see how it feels
Their biggest problem is suspension and brakes, which leads me to another thread I need to make soon about the bike that changed my perception of Harley's. However even stock, the chassis of their tour bikes has advanced quite significantly since say, 2010ish, the 13 was the first bike we got and the 14-16 have better chassis also, I'm actually interested to ride the 17 and see how it feels
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Jalopyshoppe
idiot
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The long stroke is what the people who ride and buy Harleys want. I truly believe that Harley people think a 3408 Caterpillar is a high performance engine. I'm the only idiot who de-sroked his Harley engine in the name of power.
Again, it's packaging. The engineers were given a problem to solve, and they seem to have done a great job. I've been fortunate enough to ride some amazing bikes lately, and while I wish I could say otherwise, Harley makes a proper bike. The competing stuff from other manufacturers is good. But they always miss the mark somewhere.
People are buying new Camaros when. They could buy a 370Z. The American consumer is kind of stupid.
TheRobSJ
May lose 10mm sockets if distracted
I was with you up to this point. Please go drive a new 2016 Camaro SS and a new 2016 Nissan 370Z and seriously tell me you think the Nissan is the better car in any measurable way m.
Tharkûn
Freeway Moderator
This
I think some people don't realize that Harley sells around 50% of the motorcycles in the US, and they're hugely popular overseas as well. Here in the Bay Area and most of us are driven by performance, practicality. So we look at german and japanese brands. But across most of America, it's all about cruising around.
Harley is totally riding the wave of "authenticity" and milking their brand image for all it's worth.
Harley is totally riding the wave of "authenticity" and milking their brand image for all it's worth.
clutchslip
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I wasn't with him at all because he says the consumer that buys H.D. is stupid, but Harley makes a proper bike. WTF?
Putting vibration back into the bike to keep the current "customer base" happy is just sad. Rake those suckers five more degrees and make sure they wobble like hell in a straight line, too. Let's not forget the hard-tail and useless brakes, while we are at it. Whee!
arty
TheRobSJ
May lose 10mm sockets if distracted
I wasn't with him at all because he says the consumer that buys H.D. is stupid, but Harley makes a proper bike. WTF?
Putting vibration back into the bike to keep the current "customer base" happy is just sad. Rake those suckers five more degrees and make sure they wobble like hell in a straight line, too. Let's not forget the hard-tail and useless brakes, while we are at it. Whee!
Putting in a balance shaft that countered 100% would have been suicide for H-D. If they learned anything from the "failure" of the V-Rod, is that the core customer base likes things just the way they are. That's why despite the fact that they certainly have the resources to build a far superior big v twin to the current Twin Cam, anything from Polaris, or maybe even anyone else for that matter, they have some unfortunate design constraints they must adhere to. It must shake...so much so that your extremities are numb after a tank of gas (and don't ya dare whine about it sissy!). It must make the potato potato sound. It must have super low end torque like a diesel...but run on gas. It must have overhead valve heads. Very unfortunate. But I think they've done the best they can do given those constraints. They've pretty much just built the same god damn engine they've been making for almost a century, this one will just be a little more reliable, get a little better mileage, and maybe leak/burn a little less oil. That's all they can do. Baby steps. Any more and they risk driving off customers to Indian or whatever.
Tharkûn
Freeway Moderator
This. They actually have a tough design gig if you think about it. The motor has to meet ever restricting government regulations, has to meet customer demands of lower heat, better mileage and more reliable, yet it still has to 'feel' like a motor from 1973 and has to meet the layout restrictions Rob mentioned. They can't make a butter smooth bike because they're not selling FJR1300's here and that's not what the customer wants
redtail
only ones and zeroes
Nice write up Rob, and I'm sure you're right on about who Harley targets.
For me, those extraneous features are not important and I'm curious if they'll ever see their traditional customer base shrink to the point that they need to appeal to a new majority in order to keep up with the market.
Probably not....
