The outing of Hollywood elite as sexual predators continues...

[TylerW]

And the "Listen and Believe" sect of the left begins to devour itself. Classifying everything under the sun as sexual harassment and rape is finally coming back to bite male "allies" in the ass.

I'm pretty disappointed that this level of one-sided hunting was allowed to go this far in general without anybody on the left going, "wait a second, what if they use this against me?"

But hey, tribalism is in all things. And as the beast gained power it began shedding the slough it no longer needed once it had grown beyond requiring its assistance. This is your progressive monster, enjoy!



It's already been there and done that. See "Atheism+", dongle-gate, the targeted attacks against Linus Torvalds, the disaster that befell Matt Taylor because of a shirt a woman gave him, etc, etc, etc.

Tech was the easiest to invade due to the ease at which the men were targeted. Hollywood was the nigh untouchable in comparison. Good luck actually going after lawmakers though.

So let me ask you: If the victims of sexual assault / harassment / misconduct shouldn't have a voice in what defines sexual assault / harassment / misconduct, then who should?

Rationales like yours are the reason why people in power stay in power.

 

[Climber]

So let me ask you: If the victims of sexual assault / harassment / misconduct shouldn't have a voice in what defines sexual assault / harassment / misconduct, then who should?

Rationales like yours are the reason why people who abuse power stay in power.

ftfy

 

[afm199]

So let me ask you: If the victims of sexual assault / harassment / misconduct shouldn't have a voice in what defines sexual assault / harassment / misconduct, then who should?

Rationales like yours are the reason why people in power stay in power.

Assuming, of course, that they are, in fact, victims.

 

[TylerW]

Assuming, of course, that they are, in fact, victims.

Which, of course, circles back to defining what amounts to sexual misconduct.

A few weeks back, when the Harvey Weinstein news was just coming to light, the #MeToo campaign emerged on Facebook & Twitter as a way for victims of sexual abuse (women, mostly) to express that they had been victimized. Near as I can tell, every single woman that I'm friends with has been a victim of sexual misconduct in one way or another.

And weirdly enough, a handful the guys in my feed were confused as to how many women so many women can claim to be victims and so few guys were taking responsibility for it. And therein lies the problem: If you don't have a firm grasp on what sexual misconduct is, you allow victims to keep being victims, while the perpetrators of it are able to clean their hands of it saying "Nope, not me!"

I'll share my own story of it: In high school I was at a party with a girl I desired. She was really drunk and we ended up making out, but I knew as it was happening that she never would have done that if she was sober. But I wanted her, and I wanted it to happen.

If she were on facebook, I would have been her #MeToo. I took advantage of a situation to my advantage.

 

[afm199]

Which, of course, circles back to defining what amounts to sexual misconduct.

A few weeks back, when the Harvey Weinstein news was just coming to light, the #MeToo campaign emerged on Facebook & Twitter as a way for victims of sexual abuse (women, mostly) to express that they had been victimized. Near as I can tell, every single woman that I'm friends with has been a victim of sexual misconduct in one way or another.

And weirdly enough, a handful the guys in my feed were confused as to how many women so many women can claim to be victims and so few guys were taking responsibility for it. And therein lies the problem: If you don't have a firm grasp on what sexual misconduct is, you allow victims to keep being victims, while the perpetrators of it are able to clean their hands of it saying "Nope, not me!"

I'll share my own story of it: In high school I was at a party with a girl I desired. She was really drunk and we ended up making out, but I knew as it was happening that she never would have done that if she was sober. But I wanted her, and I wanted it to happen.

If she were on facebook, I would have been her #MeToo. I took advantage of a situation to my advantage.

So what you are saying is that once someone has a drink, they become a victim and are no longer responsible for their conduct. Got it. In fact, in your world, YOU are responsible for them once they have a drink. Interesting place. Do they have to admit to having a drink for that to happen, or does it just follow? So you have sex with someone, they then reveal that they had a drink or five, and you are a sexual predator, possibly a rapist. See any potential problems here?

I certainly don't deny, and in fact freely admit that sexual misadventures take place and that men, more often than women, engage in shabby and sometimes criminal behavior. I don't believe that it is my responsibility to ascertain another person's state of being and then decide for them whether or not sexual activity is indicated.

 

[Schnellbandit]

Assuming, of course, that they are, in fact, victims.

Ah, the trap. Sexual harrassment does not need to be based in fact. There is no burden to prove it, the burden is to prove the perception. Its the reasonable person standard. Criminal charges are different but for employment, the perception alone is more than enough.

 

[TylerW]

So what you are saying is that once someone has a drink, they become a victim and are no longer responsible for their conduct. Got it.

They certainly still have agency in the situation, but not as much agency, nor clarity of decision, as a sober person (which I was).

Moreover, she didn't have a drink, she was blackout drunk, slurring words, etc. What agency do you give to a person in that state, hm? Drive a car? Sign a binding contract? Operate a firearm?

 

[DucatiHoney]

I have no doubt that there will be some false accusations. On the other hand, there are likely plenty of these stories that will never be heard--it probably evens out. Stuff gets shut down fast when no one believes you, and that why victims keep it quiet for 30 years. I bet it takes a lot to come out, reveal the fact that you were treated inappropriately, and deal with all nay-sayers. It takes a long time to produce a successful suite against a hollywood star, and an alleged victim probably isn't making a whole lot of money during that time; they aren't earning respect or friends, and may ruin him/herself in the process if they're not on the winning side. If it were easy, we'd all be doing it.

 

[lefty]

As an old guy, I no longer pick up kids, talk to them, or engage in banter with them. In today's world I worry more about being judged a sexual predator than I would like to.

As said, one allegation, and it's all over.

This.

I have been asked to be a volunteer in the schools in my community. I have always shied away from that. I would rather work at the Animal Shelter.

 

[Climber]

This.

I have been asked to be a volunteer in the schools in my community. I have always shied away from that. I would rather work at the Animal Shelter.

I'm a track coach for kids from 5 up through 18, both girls and boys.

We can never forget the ramifications of any situation and never put ourselves into a situation that could result in accusations.

The scumbags who created this environment should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

We are also required to take SafeSport classes, which are actually really well done and in addition to training us to avoid compromising situations, it also trains us in recognizing the signs and methodologies of sexual predators and recognizing situations and behaviors that may indicate that a child has been a victim of one.

The tools are getting out there.

 

[afm199]

They certainly still have agency in the situation, but not as much agency, nor clarity of decision, as a sober person (which I was).

Moreover, she didn't have a drink, she was blackout drunk, slurring words, etc. What agency do you give to a person in that state, hm? Drive a car? Sign a binding contract? Operate a firearm?

My point, exactly. There's no black and white about this. It's a spectrum from fully involved to completely victimized. So the issue is more: "Where do you draw the point?"

 

[aminalmutha]

This.

I have been asked to be a volunteer in the schools in my community. I have always shied away from that. I would rather work at the Animal Shelter.

Yeah, the dogs don't care if you watch them lick their own ballz.

 

[lam@barf]

If you rob a bank with a toy gun are you a robber or did they give you the money? Yes, the perception of "the victim" matters.

IMO -after the perpetrators, the biggest contributing factor are the excusers/enablers. All those, men and women, that just can't believe that nice person would do such a thing. After all they have a lot of money/power/position. They can date any one, they don't have to do something like that.

Except it's not about dating, it's about the exercise of power.

All the systems for processing this type of accusation are so horrible and punishing that there's not much incentive to make the false accusation that closet abusers and abuser-sympathizers like to claim happens all the time.

This issue is endemic to this culture, in every industry and at every level. The language is "to create a hostile work environment". Most of us see/hear it most days. We just don't say anything because the bullies immediately start the cries of "oh, you just can't take a joke!"

I can take a joke just fine but put your hands on me and I'll break something. Also, if you make those kinds of jokes you should be willing to take what comes back from it instead of whining about how mean someone is being to you.

I wasn't there and I'm not privy to the evidence so I have no comment on any individual's actions. This post describes what some people regularly do without claiming any specific person does or does not do these things.

If you make judgements in advance of the facts and it turns out you're wrong it will reflect poorly on you. In other words - Stop defending what some vindictive sh!ts do if you don't want to be tarred with their brush.

 

[TylerW]

My point, exactly. There's no black and white about this. It's a spectrum from fully involved to completely victimized. So the issue is more: "Where do you draw the point?"

I do think there's some push-pull here, and in my own defense, my sexual misconduct exists on a spectrum - I am worlds away from someone by the likes of Brock Turner.

But when you have a situation like the one we're in where there are a lot more women who have been sexually victimized than men who have committed an act of sexual misconduct, it becomes clear that we have a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of what sexual misconduct is and isn't. And that we can make a lot more progress by actually listening to the victims and understanding them than we will by throwing our hands in the air and shouting #NotAllMen

 

[Ogier le Danois]

So let me ask you: If the victims of sexual assault / harassment / misconduct shouldn't have a voice in what defines sexual assault / harassment / misconduct, then who should?

Rationales like yours are the reason why people in power stay in power.

The law defines what these are

Assuming, of course, that they are, in fact, victims.

I hope that those falsely accused financially ruin their accusers.

So what you are saying is that once someone has a drink, they become a victim and are no longer responsible for their conduct. Got it. In fact, in your world, YOU are responsible for them once they have a drink. Interesting place. Do they have to admit to having a drink for that to happen, or does it just follow? So you have sex with someone, they then reveal that they had a drink or five, and you are a sexual predator, possibly a rapist. See any potential problems here?

I don't believe that it is my responsibility to ascertain another person's state of being and then decide for them whether or not sexual activity is.

This is the crux of the problem.

I have no doubt that there will be some false accusations. On the other hand, there are likely plenty of these stories that will never be heard--it probably evens out. Stuff gets shut down fast when no one believes you, and that why victims keep it quiet for 30 years. I bet it takes a lot to come out, reveal the fact that you were treated inappropriately, and deal with all nay-sayers. It takes a long time to produce a successful suite against a hollywood star, and an alleged victim probably isn't making a whole lot of money during that time; they aren't earning respect or friends, and may ruin him/herself in the process if they're not on the winning side. If it were easy, we'd all be doing it.

We are culturally conditioned to believe women when they accuse men of sexual crimes. I didn’t read it all, but one of the Weinstein accusors related her sexual assault story. Leightin Mister, maybe? Nothing she said rose to even the level of verbal harassment. I assume she would have been more receptive to his suggestion of dating and traveling the world and getting her choice roles if he looked like Hemsworth.

Sexual Assault of women is a fundamental norm of human society. “Hollywood Elites” are probably no more likely to sexually assault than any other group. As I get older my perception is that most accusations are false. Every accusation that I had any primary knowledge of were false - almost 10. I feel the 3rd wave feminist movement is hurting women more than helping by attempting redefine sexual assault as something fluid.

 

[aminalmutha]

The “Hollywood Elites” are probably no more likely to sexually assault than any other group.

I literally almost L0L'd. You seriously believe that? Any other group? Sure, bruh. Sure.

 

[Mike95060]

I'm a track coach for kids from 5 up through 18, both girls and boys.

We can never forget the ramifications of any situation and never put ourselves into a situation that could result in accusations.

The scumbags who created this environment should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

We are also required to take SafeSport classes, which are actually really well done and in addition to training us to avoid compromising situations, it also trains us in recognizing the signs and methodologies of sexual predators and recognizing situations and behaviors that may indicate that a child has been a victim of one.

The tools are getting out there.

The High School Girls Basketball coach where I grew up, his name is Gary Barber, Went to jail for having oral sex with the girls on his team. Yeah please do honor your position of coach with the respect it deserves and thank you.

Are those classes open to the public?

 

[jdhu]

I have no doubt that there will be some false accusations. On the other hand, there are likely plenty of these stories that will never be heard--it probably evens out. Stuff gets shut down fast when no one believes you, and that why victims keep it quiet for 30 years. I bet it takes a lot to come out, reveal the fact that you were treated inappropriately, and deal with all nay-sayers. It takes a long time to produce a successful suite against a hollywood star, and an alleged victim probably isn't making a whole lot of money during that time; they aren't earning respect or friends, and may ruin him/herself in the process if they're not on the winning side. If it were easy, we'd all be doing it.

From what I can tell, it continues to be extremely difficult for someone to open up about sex misconduct, especially if it involved force. I know a few victims, some who continue to keep the misconduct a secret. They generally relate the same concerns; victim shaming, that no one will believe them, that it's too late or nothing would happen anyway, it's just too embarrassing and traumatic to relive, etc. etc. I also know relationships for these people can be really tough, since their partners see the pain, have to deal with their own anger about it, etc.

Anyway, false, opportunistic accusations are also awful and life-destroying. For now, my view is we still fall on the "just keep quiet" side of the spectrum.

 

[TylerW]

The law defines what these are

Laws change according to the needs of society and the evolution of social mores.

 

[DucatiHoney]

You guys should take a look at how you sound on here. The solution to the problem only partly lies with victims taking a stand. The other side lies with teaching our young men and boys (everyone, really) about their responsibilities as people that are typically stronger than women and children, and often in a position of power over them in other ways. It also is good to be able to evaluate a situation like this with rational compassion or at least with some modicum of objectivity. A lot of you sound like you're the ones being accused of poor behavior.