The question...... (How to decrease motorcycle fatalities)

[Blacknblue]

I have to agree with the masses here. If we have to make a law just to save one idiot, it ain't worth it.

Oh yeah? Well, what if that er, um, one [person!] were you? Different story now, huh? Yep. Maybe singing a different tune. . .

 

[Marlowe]

The DMV circle must pay.

Particularly given the cost of the BRC in CA, I hate to suggest this one. But perhaps it's time to stop accepting performance inside a circle at DMV as evidence of the ability to ride safely on the street, and require MSF or some alternative training for new riders.

I'm not convinced that DMV parking lot exercises indicate anything about the rider's ability to deal with congested and chaotic traffic safely. Either a real test of some sort (tamper proof helmet cam?) or simple training requirement.

And I hate to hop on the tiered licensing bandwagon, but maybe a displacement limit of 500cc for the first year wouldn't be a terrible idea either. I think the number of 16 year olds whose parents buy them that R1 they want is pretty small, but this might encourage people to start on something approaching reasonable rather than hop on that literbike the day they get their endorsement.

Beyond that, maybe some sort of training requirement -- separate traffic school for people who were riding at the time, with emphasis on safe riding techniques? There has to be some sort of carrot, and maybe that's one way to do it.

 

[brichter]

Oh yeah? Well, what if that er, um, one [person!] were you? Different story now, huh? Yep. Maybe singing a different tune. . .

Nope. I survived the "No Helmet Law" era.

 

[moto-rama]

More speed enforcement.

Believe it or not, I agree with that, too. Although I think that the speed control should not be limited to MCs, and should apply to ALL who use our roads.

The exceptions to this would be my favorite backroads, of course. Perhaps they could just ban all traffic other then motorcycles on all the best roads.

 

[brichter]

Believe it or not, I agree with that, too. Although I think that the speed control should not be limited to MCs, and should apply to ALL who use our roads.

The exceptions to this would be my favorite backroads, of course. Perhaps they could just ban all traffic other then motorcycles on all the best roads.

God luck with that!






When the moon is blue AND hell has frozen over, PM me with the route!

 

[Hundo]

uuuhhh . . .

Please tell me there was supposed to be some level of sarcasm in there. Please.

First, we need moto classes based upon the Euro system; second, we need to re-do basic speed laws that are now based upon antiquated cager technology when road machines handled poorly; next we need laws that allow high tech motos to safely pass over the dy, itself a archaic engineering feat based upon low tech/low power cages; finally, we need to have laws giving priority to riders over cagers.

Everyone who rides on the peninsula/bay area knows that cagers are excellent drivers and tend to flow with rides. These solid people are an excellent model for all cagers elsewhere.

With an advanced MSF system, we can then introduce a German style autobahn system for both bikes and high tech cages.

It's ridiculous that solid pilots and drivers can not properly use their machines in a country that prides itself upon 'freedom.'

 

[JakesKTM]

Hayabusas only during permit period. Whoever is able to walk back into the DMV to get their license gets one....

 

[gixxerjoeca]

With an advanced MSF system, we can then introduce a German style autobahn system for both bikes and high tech cages.

Dont we have one allready? I-5

 

[Hundo]

My take on it:

I thought about getting a modulator for my headlight before, but didn't, and now that I'm in L.A. and have almost been reamed by many cagers in a short amount of time -- I'm getting a modulator.

A short story backing my support for mandatory MSF course before being able to get license/bike:

A friend of mine (not the brightest guy in the world) had always drooled over my bike and said that he wanted to get back into riding. I asked him when he used to ride, what made him stop in the 1st place, etc. His answer was that he got in a wreck and it scared him.

2 months later, and against my advise, he buys an older Ninju 750. I offer to ride with him and do cone-practice with him in an empty lot. He replies with , " That kind of shit is unnecessary". I am called by a nurse 2 days later so I can come get him out of the hospital.

What does he do next? He buys a brand new ZX-6R, of course! He has crashed the thing about 5 times in various incidents -- all of which I think were his fault -- and the bike and he now have multiple scars to show for it.

Guess what? He has no bloody license, no insurance, and obviously has never done the MSF.

Yes the guy is a buddy, but if MSF was mandatory, as was showing a valid M1 @ the dealerships, then he would have NEVER gotten the ZX-6, and maybe would have slowed down and thought about previous crash.

Moral of the story? Retards are retards and will continue to be so. When retards are pulled over (and he has been many times) and CANNOT show an M1 to teh LEO, then immediate action should be taken against them. I am tired of being profiled by LEO's b/c of retards such as my buddy. He's a riot to hang around, but I NEVER ride with him, and think of him every time I am unjustifiably pulled over by a LEO.

I back the tiered license (not gonna happen, but hey...), continuing education with a strong LEO presence, Mandatory MSF & M1 & Insurance to buy at the dealerships.

 

[moto-rama]

God luck with that!

When the moon is blue AND hell has frozen over, PM me with the route!

Ok, it will start on Hwy One just north of Santa Barbara, and head East when you get to Fortuna, when you get to Hwy 44 through Lassen, you can head south on 395 to Hwy 4 then just head west,



you get the idea..

 

[OldMadBrit]

Of the 8 deaths in San Jose.....

4 were cruisers
4 were sportbikes

Of the 4 cruisers, three had alcohol in their system.
Of the 4 sportbikes, all were moving violations.

Of the 4 cruisers, all were middle aged men.
Of the 4 sportbikes, all were in their twenties.

Sooo how about: - you have to ride a cruiser until you are middle aged, then you have to ride a sportbike. It would be an interesting take on tiered licensing


But seriously as others have said:

1. no M1 + insurance = no bike (private and dealer);
2. no MSF = no M1
3. no gear = no MSF sign off

 

[serazin]

Oh yeah? Well, what if that er, um, one [person!] were you? Different story now, huh? Yep. Maybe singing a different tune. . .

No. Not at all.

Don't project you beliefs and values on others. I found out the hard way you will be wrong most of the time.

 

[mookiera]

I come down on the side of "not necessarily." It depends on the side effects of said law.

Apart from increased costs and less personal freedom, both debatable points, you might see other unintended consequences of some laws that go undetected for some time because nobody is evaluating data about those trends.

Let's take the modulating headlight as an example. You point out that you always see them and they're annoying, but have never taken an accident report on somebody who had one. Fair enough. Let's legislate that every bike has to have a modulator on during daylight hours.

This might have the effect of reducing collisions with bikes that have modulators. It might also increase distractions in other ways. A motorist has a bike coming up from behind with an obnoxious modulator going and adjusts his mirror because the thing is driving him crazy. While he's momentarily distracted with that, the vehicle ahead of him stops abruptly and he rear-ends the guy. Maybe the vehicle ahead is another motorcyclist.

Now, the fact of being distracted by a modulator *might* come up in the accident report, but there's probably no way that it would find its way into stats evaluating the effectiveness of the new modulator law, because nobody will even know to look for things like that for a long time. It wouldn't be until years after such stories circulate that anyone would even think twice.

Interestingly, the requirement that all motorcyclists' headlights be on during the daytime was originally a measure taken to improve visibility. It has probably worked, but not that many years ago, suddenly all new trucks (and for a time other vehicles) had to be manufactured with headlights that came on during the day. Suddenly, a higher percentage of vehicles have their headlights on all the time and motorcycles are hard to distinguish again. This comparatively new law may have diluted the benefit motorcyclists got from running their lights all the time.

So, no, I don't always feel that a law that saves one life is a good law. It depends on how it fits into the big picture.

Good points all.

 

[Blacknblue]

No. Not at all.

Don't project you beliefs and values on others. I found out the hard way you will be wrong most of the time.

Damn. I was just kidding around with brichter. Sorry, excuse me, sheesh.
There were question marks, a "maybe" and a Sorry for trying to lighten
things up a little.

 

[brichter]

Damn. I was just kidding around with brichter. Sorry, excuse me, sheesh.
There were question marks, a "maybe" and a Sorry for trying to lighten
things up a little.

Don't worry, I got it.

 

[Enchanter]

Late to the reply, didn't mean to ignore this post....

It works both ways. If there are definitions of what is legal, doing it that way will be legal, not left open to widely varying interpretations.

Agreed.

Please link the relevant VC sections concerning max speed for lane sharing and max delta speed for lane sharing.

There are none. I was refering to the laws that address weaving, unsafe lane changes, speed unsafe for conditions, following too closely, straddling the lane. There are more than enough ways to earn a ticket when lane sharing....

 

[Grease_Monkey]

Sorry if this has been brought up, but i don't feel like reading 18 pages of post.

Unfortunately now a days vehicles drive themselves. Smart cruise control, Anti Lock Brakes, Automatic Transmissions, Lane alert for drowsy drivers, infrared cameras, back up sensors. Vehicles also have many outstanding safely devices, multiple air bags, crumple zones, run flat tires, tire pressure sensors, SRS seat belts which tighen up in a crash, On Star crash notification, etc. It is very easy to get into a car, drive it, crash it and walk away.

Many people, as i used, think that a motorcycle is a car with two wheels, which we all know to be false. The only true way to reduce motorcycle fatalities is to Educate. Educate potential riders to the risks, educate drivers to the danger they can put a motorcycle into. I no politician but get programs in school like Drivers Ed, except specify Riders Ed. I think tiered licensing is another good idea.

I know motorcycle fatalities will never go away, I know there are people out there with superman complex and will stop at nothing, till the day they die, to prove it. But if these types of programs can save one life, then it is worth it. Worth it to friends, families, and the motorcycle community.

 

[Rel]

Sorry if this has been brought up, but i don't feel like reading 18 pages of post.

Unfortunately now a days vehicles drive themselves. Smart cruise control, Anti Lock Brakes, Automatic Transmissions, Lane alert for drowsy drivers, infrared cameras, back up sensors. Vehicles also have many outstanding safely devices, multiple air bags, crumple zones, run flat tires, tire pressure sensors, SRS seat belts which tighen up in a crash, On Star crash notification, etc. It is very easy to get into a car, drive it, crash it and walk away.

Many people, as i used, think that a motorcycle is a car with two wheels, which we all know to be false. The only true way to reduce motorcycle fatalities is to Educate. Educate potential riders to the risks, educate drivers to the danger they can put a motorcycle into. I no politician but get programs in school like Drivers Ed, except specify Riders Ed. I think tiered licensing is another good idea.

I know motorcycle fatalities will never go away, I know there are people out there with superman complex and will stop at nothing, till the day they die, to prove it. But if these types of programs can save one life, then it is worth it. Worth it to friends, families, and the motorcycle community.

 

[YZF450LE]

The question...... (How to decrease motorcycle fatalities)

That is a loaded question really. For example to answer you must cover the areas of experience, age, bike cc, situation, self inflicted, road condition and so on.

My personal beef is with the ability of any person to walk into a bike shop and buy a 100 plus hp machine and never had anything bigger the a paper route bicycle. I am in favor of a tiered license approach, after seeing some of the folks in the MSF course I took granted a pass to the roads, I was simply stunned. It starts there I would suggest, I mean granting a license to kill themselves or someone else, I could not do.

It is no different then selling a R1 or Gixxer to someone as there first bike

Anyway, it is a tough thing to answer really, there will always be the stupid who take risks and as the adage says, ya cannot fix stupid.

 

[Rel]

Perhaps legislation to prevent motorcycle dealerships from selling any motorcycle to someone without an M1 endorsement?