This is why ABS haters are wrong

[danate]

I think we're way off topic at this point talking about airbags and spikes and stuff.

Point being ABS is a technology that adds a level of safety to riding. Yes, there are hardcore riders who say their instincts are better than ABS, whatever. The majority have less of a probability of crashing due to a front wheel lockup with ABS. Do they need to have that happen to learn how to brake properly? No, they don't.

There will be a small minority who continually slam their front brakes and never do it properly and they will end up being saved by ABS again and again. What's the alternative? They do it once and crash, then either learn or never ride again.

 

[tzrider]

Do you seriously think drivers wouldn't change how they drive if even a minor fender-bender resulted in death or serious injury?

It's observable that people's perspectives change when they get out of a car and start to ride a motorcycle, which is of course the situation you are describing above. The differences in their exposure to harm are very obvious and they do respond accordingly. For another example along the same line, some riders ride differently when dressed in jacket and jeans vs. leathers.

Airbags and ABS are not as obvious in an in-your-face manner as some of these other things. There may well be drivers and riders who become accustomed to ABS triggering and incorporate that into their riding, becoming less concerned with how they brake in the process. For you to assert that it happens to everyone crosses a line where you are making a pronouncement you aren't qualified to make.

Knowing Tim, if he tells me he doesn't brake differently with ABS, I believe him. I'd certainly believe his experience long before I'd believe your speculation.

 

[ilikefood]

It's observable that people's perspectives change when they get out of a car and start to ride a motorcycle, which is of course the situation you are describing above. The differences in their exposure to harm are very obvious and they do respond accordingly. For another example along the same line, some riders ride differently when dressed in jacket and jeans vs. leathers.

Airbags and ABS are not as obvious in an in-your-face manner as some of these other things. There may well be drivers and riders who become accustomed to ABS triggering and incorporate that into their riding, becoming less concerned with how they brake in the process. For you to assert that it happens to everyone crosses a line where you are making a pronouncement you aren't qualified to make.

Knowing Tim, if he tells me he doesn't brake differently with ABS, I believe him. I'd certainly believe his experience long before I'd believe your speculation.

Well, I'm not going to debate somebody's subjective perception of what he does or doesn't do. Keep in mind, though that people's judgement and actions are affected by tons of things we don't consciously realize. For example, people perceive strangers differently, depending on whether they (the test subjects, not the strangers) previously held a warm or cold drink in their hands. And of course they'd strongly deny that the temperature of the drink had any impact.

How could something as significant to one's safety as ABS have absolutely no impact on one's behavior? I'm not talking about triggering ABS all the time, just subtle changes to riding, like being a bit more aggressive in the wet for example.

 

[Enchanter]

Wait, did you just defend your opinion by saying that the opposing view is invalid because it's subjective?

 

[tzrider]

How could something as significant to one's safety as ABS have absolutely no impact on one's behavior? I'm not talking about triggering ABS all the time, just subtle changes to riding, like being a bit more aggressive in the wet for example.

I, for one, don't trust the systems enough to find out if they work as advertised. They can overcome some hamfisted braking, but they won't overcome everything, such as grenading the brakes mid-corner. I just make it a point to stay below the threshold of triggering them, which it a bit of a behavior change, as there are a few occasions on which I will brake harder without ABS.

 

[ilikefood]

Wait, did you just defend your opinion by saying that the opposing view is invalid because it's subjective?

It's "my opinion" in the same sense that saying that you have two legs and would be sad if your dog died is "my opinion". Some things about humans are pretty much universal.

 

[VicTim]

It really doesn't matter what opinions are stated here since in the near future pretty much all bikes will have abs. I know that many here will never get a new bike since a motorcycle must have a carburetor and no abs.

 

[tzrider]

It really doesn't matter what opinions are stated here since in the near future pretty much all bikes will have abs. I know that many here will never get a new bike since a motorcycle must have a carburetor and no abs.

There is something to be said for simple machines. I'm fond of them myself.

 

[Lunch Box]

For most of my riding, I would be open to ABS, fuel injection, etc. If I were doing a long (i.e. 3000+ mile) trip out in the boonies, I would actually prefer an air cooled, carbureted, old school bike (i.e. DR650, etc).

 

[afm199]

It's a proven fact that riders with ABS suffer from testicle shrinkage and impotence.

 

[Lunch Box]

It's a proven fact that riders with ABS suffer from testicle shrinkage and impotence.

You can't scare me. I'm married.

 

[GAJ]

That's a weird feature GAJ. I've never heard of one that takes away your front braking to prevent a stoppie. Is that part of the ABS system or the traction control?

ABS system, the F800ST had no traction control.

I believe they called it rear wheel lift detection or some such nonsense.

I'd still recommend ABS on motorcycles that don't have a similar "feature."

 

[Lunch Box]

They should install that on every supermoto, just to piss us all off.

 

[HeatXfer]

Someone brought up the analogy of airbags earlier - one unfortunate side effect of improved car safety is that people drive a lot less carefully than they otherwise would. Just think how much more carefully people would drive if the driver's airbag were replaced with a sharpened spike in the center of the steering wheel. It's not all that different with ABS.

My observations have shown me the drivers I'm surrounded by on a daily basis drive less carefully then I do regardless of airbags, IMO. I suppose it could be a result of the 'airbag culture', but I think it's just a lazy self-centered attitude that many many people have today.

 

[VicTim]

It's a proven fact that riders with ABS suffer from testicle shrinkage and impotence.

How do you know


Oh and air bags have been very prevalent since the 1950's, they used to call them Mother in Laws.

 

[rkorner]

Dunno what all the commotion is about. I rode analog bikes for years, could run around in a group pace at the track just fine.

Now I'm on an rsv4 with all of the electronic wizardry. I've hit the abs twice on the street (was trying to activate both times) and i had to brake extremely hard just to do it. Only rider aid I use often is the traction control. Its fun to be able to push the tire a little bit and not worry as much about throwing myself to the moon.


So this whole thing about having abs, tc, WC and using it all the time is horseshit. I didn't all of a sudden wake up and go "I'm gonna just be completely hamfisted with every input, my electronics will save me"

If you've never ridden a bike with any of the electronic aids do yourself a favor and try one that have a decent system. You'll be surprised at how unobtrusive the aids really are.

 

[danate]

Can't wait for self-driving motorcycles...

 

[louemc]

Dunno what all the commotion is about. I rode analog bikes for years, could run around in a group pace at the track just fine.

Now I'm on an rsv4 with all of the electronic wizardry. I've hit the abs twice on the street (was trying to activate both times) and i had to brake extremely hard just to do it. Only rider aid I use often is the traction control. Its fun to be able to push the tire a little bit and not worry as much about throwing myself to the moon.


So this whole thing about having abs, tc, WC and using it all the time is horseshit. I didn't all of a sudden wake up and go "I'm gonna just be completely hamfisted with every input, my electronics will save me"

If you've never ridden a bike with any of the electronic aids do yourself a favor and try one that have a decent system. You'll be surprised at how unobtrusive the aids really are.

:thumb up Said like it should be said :thumb up

It puts it in the perspective, of a rider that has learned how to use the controls, So that is how they get used.

What chaps my ass, is the opinions of never learned, have no intention of learning, and counting on this technology to do the deed.

 

[VicTim]

^^^^^^^ The last great motorcyclist.

 

[Hooli]

If you've never ridden a bike with any of the electronic aids do yourself a favor and try one that have a decent system. You'll be surprised at how unobtrusive the aids really are.

What chaps my ass, is the opinions of never learned, have no intention of learning, and counting on this technology to do the deed.

^^^Conveniently glosses over the last bit of rkorner's post. laughing