Thought I had low T..

[kevin 714]

Unrelated to actual T levels or hormone talk, but if you’re older and struggling to gain muscle or feel strong, ditch the classic lifting modalities (training to failure, classic body building routines or Olympic stuff) and switch to working work capacity via volume cycles and density cycles. You’ll achieve fantastic results, and play into the long lasting style of strength that naturally stays as we age: tendon strength and isometric strength.

As the doc succinctly put, there’s real potential medical needs. But a lot of what makes people think they have low T, things like lethargy and inability to feel strong, only to
Find out they DONT, come down to flawed modalities of training, activity, and not having knowledge or more effective ways to train, lift, do
Sports or activities, taking age and body condition into account.

 

[Climber]

Pushing it hard in workouts increase your testoserone level.
If you're feeling lethargic, it's probably because you haven't been working out or if you have, you have spent more time screwing around with your phone than actually working out.
You also need consistency, so working really hard one day a week won't cut it unless you're in your teens, and each decade requires more frequency and consistency.

 

[Abacinator]

 

[DrSwade]

Pushing it hard in workouts increase your testoserone level.
If you're feeling lethargic, it's probably because you haven't been working out or if you have, you have spent more time screwing around with your phone than actually working out.
You also need consistency, so working really hard one day a week won't cut it unless you're in your teens, and each decade requires more frequency and consistency.

This is true…in a perfect world where all things are equal. But if there are varying degrees or levels of hormones in each persons body.

Doing manly shit isn’t going to produce more testosterone if the ol’ nut factory closed shop…or reduced their stock anymore than a woman wearing high heels, goiking on makeup and sticking caterpillars on their eyelids is going to produce estrogens in a post-menopausal female.

One advantage for women is that exercise WILL produce more testosterone because their’s is made in the adrenals.

I know sedentary women on TRT because they won’t do what it takes naturally to boost testosterone. Even a very wee bit of testosterone improves their lives.

There are literally almost no downsides to a man augmenting testosterone bybexogenous means.

 

[DrSwade]

I should mention that I run into quite a few sub-35 guys who claim to be on TRT. Of course NONE of them ever actually tested. It’s just another reason for them to justify wanting a “microwave fast” change in their physiques…and usually for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Agent Orange]

Thanks for your insight on this subject Swade

 

[Holeshot]

Agree. Good stuff and thanks Rob.

 

[Eldritch]

This is true…in a perfect world where all things are equal. But if there are varying degrees or levels of hormones in each persons body.

Doing manly shit isn’t going to produce more testosterone if the ol’ nut factory closed shop…or reduced their stock anymore than a woman wearing high heels, goiking on makeup and sticking caterpillars on their eyelids is going to produce estrogens in a post-menopausal female.

One advantage for women is that exercise WILL produce more testosterone because their’s is made in the adrenals.

I know sedentary women on TRT because they won’t do what it takes naturally to boost testosterone. Even a very wee bit of testosterone improves their lives.

There are literally almost no downsides to a man augmenting testosterone bybexogenous means.

In your experience do those women ever seem more inclined to do killer shit like jumping vehicles off ramps over fire while other shit is blowing up unnecessarily?

 

[DrSwade]

I am open to come back and check this from time to time to answer even specific questions. I would love to enlighten anyone enough to change these ignorant perceptions.

BayArean, part of my long answer to you was that you are not going to get cancer from testosterone. Saw palmetto reduces DHT which will improve enlarged prostates. Physicians are not your friend where hormones are concerned. They’d be quick to prescribe a 5a reductase inhibitor but god forbid you seek a natural method.
There are so many supplements that help balance hormones but none really will boost testosterone.

 

[Sharxfan]

I've been in a funk lately and I've been lifting for the past year or so consistently without being able to build muscle. My recovery times were taking longer as well in between workouts. I think its just age catching up with me.

The Kaiser blood test also will tell you other information and turns out I have higher than normal cholesterol levels and Im borderline diabetic. Doctor tells me I should cut back on the sweets and carbs, and watch my weight. Even though Im not overweight by any means.

Kind of in the same boat. Cholesterol is fine though but my A1C is higher than normal but I do need to lose wait and am working on it with a lifestyle change so it is going slowly which I feel is more sustainable than a quick diet. I do think I have low T but am sure if I got it tested they would say hey you are doing okay.

 

[Bay Arean]

I am open to come back and check this from time to time to answer even specific questions. I would love to enlighten anyone enough to change these ignorant perceptions.

BayArean, part of my long answer to you was that you are not going to get cancer from testosterone. Saw palmetto reduces DHT which will improve enlarged prostates. Physicians are not your friend where hormones are concerned. They’d be quick to prescribe a 5a reductase inhibitor but god forbid you seek a natural method.
There are so many supplements that help balance hormones but none really will boost testosterone.

Thanks, Doc!

 

[kevin 714]

There are literally almost no downsides to a man augmenting testosterone bybexogenous means.

in no way arguing but can you elaborate on your statement here? because the mayo clinic has this

Testosterone therapy has various risks, including:

Worsening sleep apnea — a potentially serious sleep disorder in which breathing repeatedly stops and starts.
Causing acne or other skin reactions.
Stimulating noncancerous growth of the prostate (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and growth of existing prostate cancer.
Enlarging breasts.
Limiting sperm production or causing testicles to shrink.
Stimulating too much red blood cell production, which contributes to the increased risk of forming a blood clot. A clot could break loose, travel through your bloodstream and lodge in your lungs, blocking blood flow (pulmonary embolism).

and webmd has:

The team analyzed data from about 15,400 British men, aged 45 and older, with age-related low testosterone levels.

Those who took testosterone replacement therapy had a 21% higher risk of cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke or mini-stroke than those who did not take the therapy. That increased risk translated into 128 more cardiovascular events.

However, the increased risk declined after two years of testosterone treatment, according to the study published recently in The American Journal of Medicine.

Further studies should be conducted to confirm this study's findings, Renoux recommended.

"Until such time, the potential cardiovascular risk of [testosterone therapy] should be weighed against the perceived and expected benefits among aging men," she said in a journal news release.

and harvard has this

Men on long-term using forms of testosterone therapy long term appear to have a higher risk of cardiovascular problems, like heart attacks, strokes, and deaths from heart disease. For example, in 2010, researchers halted the Testosterone in Older Men study when early results showed that men on testosterone replacement therapy had noticeably more heart problems. "In older men, theoretical cardiac side effects become a little more immediate," Dr. Pallais says.

considering the prevalence of heart disease in American men, and the across the board results I find that say TRT is associated with increase heart disease risk, that seems importanmt. of course it may just be im not finding counter info

 

[JesasaurusRex]

Almost had to change your pronouns
it's a joke ffs

 

[ctwo]

[YOUTUBE]ki6xrEiHE4U[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Bay Arean]

in no way arguing but can you elaborate on your statement here? because the mayo clinic has this



and webmd has:


and harvard has this


considering the prevalence of heart disease in American men, and the across the board results I find that say TRT is associated with increase heart disease risk, that seems importanmt. of course it may just be im not finding counter info

Yeah, that's why I wrote what I did, after I spent quality time reading up on this topic. It feels like you are taking a chance for one benefit at the risk of many others. I mean, we're all gonna die...but.. Since my PSA is going up, that one item (increase risk of prostate cancer) there has the most relevance....

But, and this is a major point of discussion that I am not equipped to have a learned opinion there is the paradox: As men get older, their testo goes down and voilá, their PSA levels go up, and yer rotten little gland turns cancerous like 80% of the time if you make it to 80. It's like God's plan or something. There is a huge controversy about just how dangerous it is that it happens, and some scientists feel like its over-treated, relative to other things in life that are ticking away anyway till dirt nap.

When they treat patients for actual surgery, they chemically castrate them from testo for a LONG interval, I think at least a year. So you get to turn into Maude for a while. I shake in my boots thinking about how I'd feel if I lost my strength, grew more manboob, etc. etc. I can accept the end of sex and 'rections, because of age. But damn, how am I gonna feel about living?. And yeah, I knew a guy, and it felt like shit for him.

What I don't get is, if prostate cancer happens to naturally lowered T, why would lowering it even more help it heal? I know, it's science and above my ape-like reasoning skills, but nevertheless. Probably some usage trigger or somethin...

Or perhaps the thing that is more mysterious to me: why does letting it go down without at least some attempt to counteract it (for me, its the heavy weightlifting, diet and sleep and thoughts-n-prayers, with a bit of progesterone cream) seem possibly wrong? The Kaiser doc said, no herbals, no progesterone but he seemed incredulous at the latter, which showed his ignorance of the fact that its a pre-cursor for developing testo. Even I know that.

 

[Blankpage]

When they treat patients for actual surgery, they chemically castrate them from testo for a LONG interval, I think at least a year. So you get to turn into Maude for a while. I shake in my boots thinking about how I'd feel if I lost my strength, grew more manboob, etc. etc. I can accept the end of sex and 'rections, because of age. But damn, how am I gonna feel about living?. And yeah, I knew a guy, and it felt like shit for him.

DAMN, if thats my fate I hope I have enough strength left to jump off a bridge.

 

[DrSwade]

All of those studies are so myopic it is silly. “British men”? Probably on par or worse than American where health is concerned.

To just address lightly just a few:
If you are a fat fuck with high cholesterol and heart disease, taking testosterone isn’t going to make you healthier. Testosterone can influence lipids in a negative way and must be monitored. Enlarged prostate? Sure. Going to happen anyway and if you use testosterone, the hormone that causes it, DHT, can increase IF you are a converter. You see, testoserone CAN convert to not only DHT but also estrogens and prolactin IF you are someone who is a big converter.
I can use as much as 700mg/week of testosterone and only slighty elevate my DHT and estrogens. I am not a big “converter. These estrogens and prolactin are what causes “breast growth” cited in studies. Guess what, cannabis does to, in some users.
I have no “breast growth” or gynecomastia as it is called.

All of these thing can and MUST be monitored just like all the usual health makers are via blood test, regularly.

Acne and hair loss along with prostate enlargement are caused by DHT. You may or not have an abundance depending on the person with or without exogenous testoserone.

There are no definitive studies correlating increased RBCs with testosterone. The notion is anecdotal at best. Funny thing, an increase in RBCs boost athletic performance. This is sought out by many athletes, namely endurance athletes such as cyclists. Ever heard of EPO? That is the sole purpose of that drug. Cyclists aren’t dropping dead in droves because of high RBCs.
But again, easily monitored. The real risk of high RBCs is thickening of the blood. Not an issue if you use asprin, Omegas and Essential Fatty Acids like all you old dudes should be doing anyway.

Shrinking nuts and reduced sperm count? Who cares if you are over 50 and shooting blanks? You shouldn’t be procreating past that age anyway. Unless you are cool with grandpa (who is actually their father) attending HS graduation.
My nuts were always in the way anyway. At my age the low hang isn’t so prevalent because my nuts are like peanut M&Ms. I like it.

I say these studies are myopic because they seem to focus only on negatives. It’s like if they come across the positives, they sweep them to the side.
But that last quote said two very important things:
The risk diminishes over time and the benefits must be weighed against the risks.
Does the risk dimish because the body perhaps becomes more efficient, closer to homestasis, and starts to operate at at normal level, not one in a powerful hormone deficit?

Bottom line is ifyou are sedentary, fat, eat like shit and generally do nothing to improve yourself, just shooting testosterone isn’t going to be a goid idea. In fact it is tantamount to the guys using it to “get buff” without doing all the other things required.

On the other hand, if you are working hard every day, maybe not even hard but putting in an effort, yet you can do nothing to stop the physical decay happening in the prescence of low testosterone, a little help from exogenous testosterone will do very magical things.

I wonder how many of the guys or girls here who have already been supplementing would say the choice has been negative vs. those who say it changed their lives for the better?

A final note about medicine, the FDA and the “information” they supply.
I have not ready a PDR since books became passe to the hand computer/black mirror society, but for decades all anabolic and androgenic steroids had a note in that gigantic insert you get with drugs that said “Anobolic steroids do not increase athletic perfomance.”

Really? OK, why ban them in sports? Why make Schedule III? Why the big focus on steroids and athletes all these years?

Same government that tells you cannabis “has no medical value” therefore is Schedule I. Yet the FDA has approved form of it available by prescription.

You can’t have it both ways. These are mutually exclusive statements.

 

[easy wind]

“My nuts were always in the way anyway. At my age the low hang isn’t so prevalent because my nuts are like peanut M&Ms. I like it.”

 

[Pushrod]

Personal disclosure time.

In my twenties I was smart enough to marry a woman ten years older than I. Forty years of intensity was gratifying. But now in my seventies, and the testosterone ebbing, it all works out. My eighty year old wife is slacking off at just the right time for me.

I passed on TRT and she was good with that.


And we have a friend (he's 75) who chased his youth with TRT for a couple of years. In appearance he has gone from benignly attractive to looking like an evil doer in a superhero movie. Didn't score him any wimmen anyway. And now when he comes around he is grotesque.

 

[DrSwade]

Is a woman on HRT “chasing youth” or simply trying to be healthy and slow the physical degredation caused by aging?