Thoughts on the Dangers of Riding?

[andmc]

Have owned half a dozen motorcycles in the last 10 years. Even rode across the country. So not a new rider.

Had one crash back in 2017. Topsided on an SV650 after hitting a pothole while leaning into a corner . Fractured my scapula. Took me a while to get back on the bike. But worked through the fear and have owned a number of bikes since.

To me there's nothing like riding. The feeling of accelerating through the twisties. Gets you out of your head and into the world, clears the mind.

But the more I am around bikes and bike culture, the more I hear about injuries. Pretty bad ones aren't uncommon. And I'm sure we all have had close calls, especially with other people driving like idiots.

I work with my hands and need my body to support myself. I love riding. But the risks of it are potentially life-changing (and not in a good way).

How do you guys balance these two sides of motorcycling? On one hand riding being one of the coolest things ever, but on the other hand potentially life-threateningly dangerous.

 

[berth]

How do you guys balance these two sides of motorcycling?

Well for one, I aim to not be one of these:

And I'm sure we all have had close calls, especially with other people driving like idiots.

I hadn't ridden in, like, 10 years. Bought a new bike, and took it into the office.

I come out of a parking lot, line up in traffic at a light and, essentially, dropped the bike. I have no idea why, but lost my footing, lost my balance, but, just that. There it went, barely got out of my own way.

Not only did I drop the bike, but I was only wearing my jacket and not my riding pants. Riding pants were new to me, I'd never had them before, and since I was going to the office, I decided not to wear them.

A simple drop.

Hurt my ankle, banged my knee (armor would have saved that), dinged my shiny new bike. 3 weeks of healing (we don't heal as well anymore).

So, stuff happens to be sure.

But as you said, and as we've read, the vast majority of accidents are riders being idiots.

Doing silly things. Riding while impaired. Riding too fast for conditions.

I don't do those things. Thankfully, speed has never been my "thing" with motorcycles. When I rode with my friend, we'd just agree to meet at the end, and I'd let him ride off, doing his thing.

I've been a street rider far too long, the street has not necessarily been friendly to me. The grind, day to day commuting. Had my bumps and bruises. But they've all been low speed. < 25mph (if even that).

Obviously, it can always happen to me. Something out of my control. A story years ago about four bikes up near Angels Camp, and a truck in front of them let loose a load of plywood. Took them all out. That's a Finger of God thing.

We all rationalize it, like we do driving. Like we do eating perhaps what we shouldn't be eating. "Can't happen to me."

But, in practice I strive to "not be an idiot". Pay attention, all those things we're taught, we've learned.

Gear up, slow down, don't drink.

I've survived my first year, first 10K miles, a long time ago.

And as I like to say: "I love motorcycling, but I don't recommend it anyone."

 

[greenmonster]

I echo Berth’s comments. Have fun but don’t do stupid stuff and you’ll greatly reduce the chance of a crash.
No wheelies, no alcohol, no ripping between cars on the freeway at 100 MPH. All the crazy moto stuff you see on Instagram and TikTok- leave that alone and ride safely.

Secondly buy the best gear you can afford- helmet, jacket, gloves, moto pants and moto boots.
And wear ALL of it every time you ride.
I would also add an airbag vest to protect your back and mid section.
This will reduce injuries in the event of a crash.

Your specific concern about working with your hands might be addressed by an accidental death and dismemberment policy. A quick internet search says motorcycle accidents are “likely” to be covered.

 

[Tally Whacker]

Well, I might be in a good position to weigh in on this, since I just wrecked my shit last Friday.

I'll admit that it was my fault- I'm not going to sugar-coat it. I let my attention drift and I paid the price.

Here's the part that might seem counterintuitive: I wrecked because I was riding at a mellow pace.

Hear me out and it might make sense.

When I ride fast (and, at 60 years old, I still do) my focus is complete. I might make an error here and there, but it isn't because I'm not paying attention. When I rail the canyons, my world narrows down to me, the road, and other road users. That's it.

When I go into mellow tour mode, sometimes my mind wanders, and that's what happened to me on Friday. I was too busy enjoying the scenery and only realized too late that I was well into a decreasing radius turn. End result- three broken fingers on my left hand, and a rashed-up bike.

Just two years ago I broke my left wrist in a cycling accident, so this is familiar territory.

I will tell you this, though- as soon as my cast comes off I'm back on the bike. This won't stop me for any longer than it takes to heal up.

 

[two wheel tramp]

I got left turned and spent four months on crutches and in a wheel chair.

I was back on the bike as soon as I was allowed to bear weight and could fit my swollen foot into the boot.

I was gunshy for a bit but I’m too stupid to stop.

 

[Cornfish]

I just dumped my bike in a hairpin corner with oil or gas in my lane. Immediate low side at ~20 mph. Good gear and a slower speed saved me, but I am still sore. If I weren't 1,000 miles from home, I probably would have put the bike in the garage for a bit, but I picked it up and kept riding.

First crash in a decade, and hopefully my last. I shook it from my head pretty fast, and I am more or less riding like I was before the crash. Candidly, I don't know what I could have done differently, and that is kind of hard to wrap my head around. I already scan the road surface diligently, but from my angle, and setting up for and looking through the turn, I never saw the oil. I suppose I could have been going slower and scanning harder, but at some point, you stop riding and become overly cautious, and as @Tally Whacker mentioned, that isn't good either.

I guess it is a risk we take. I try not to be stupid, and I don't have enough talent to do some of the stuff I see other riders pulling off. But I ride well enough to put myself in plenty of situations that could be devastating. Oil in the road in almost any other place than where I found it could have been really ugly. I guess I don't have any answers other than I love it too much to quit. And I don't want to live a life of caution. But the risk still gets into my empty head now and then.

 

[greenmonster]

I appreciate tally whacker’s tour mode comments. My mind wanders too when I’m cruising along at 75 on the freeway with light traffic and no perceived dangers.
I like that feeling but it can get me into trouble.

You’re never going to completely eliminate all danger from motorcycle riding, hell, part of the fun IS the inherent danger and our mastery over it as we ride.

Other random thoughts to mitigate crashing.
Personally I don’t ride in the rain or right afterwards. I don’t ride after dark and I don’t ride every day.
Sunshine, dry streets and a weekend putt are my vibe.

 

[bmwbob51]

There are three kinds of motorcycle riders: those who have gone down, those who are going down, and those who are going down again.


If you ride long enough, the odds eventually catch up with you. Watch motorcycle crash videos on YouTube and you'll notice that the vast majority of accidents—often more than 90%—could have been avoided by the rider, even when another vehicle is involved.


Experience teaches you to recognize the situations that most often lead to trouble. The longer you ride, the more you learn to anticipate risks, stay alert, and ride accordingly.

 

[greenmonster]

And I think that riding below your limits helps to avoid trouble.
I’m not scraping my pipes through turns or trying to set a new speed record anymore.
I enjoy speed ( jeez i have a tuned Hayabusa with a full exhaust and Sprint air filter) but I don’t push it against the limit wall.

Well, maybe sometimes

 

[cheez]

Ya pays your nickel and ya takes your chances.

No amount of prudence will stop you from being mowed down by a careless driver.

Carpe diem, semper vigilate, salvī vehāminī!

 

[larry kahn]

People saying "Ride safe" to each other bugs the Hell out of me. Cannot be done. Getting out there with the cars and animals and unforeseen events beyond our control makes us sitting ducks. (or Ducs...) We can, as I prefer to say in parting with others "Ride well."
Two things come to my mind, first is with regards to other drivers, wear some easier to see gear because the drivers are paying less attention with lesser roadcraft than ever before. ("Like nobodies ever seen before..")(sorry) Get a light color/hi-viz helmet at least. Give them a chance to see us anyway. Secondly, I see you have an MT09 now? Just speaking for my recent self, I sold my Kawasaki Z900RS because while I'm 71 and arguably too old for this type of bike seems I was not mature enough and got too giddy (and lucky) on it a few too many times. Modern 100+hp stuff is too tempting. My Ducati 1100 Scrambler makes 86 hp and is pretty well done by 6500 RPM and has cushy suspension so I don't get seduced into stupidity as much.
As for the risk, it's there. But nothing replaces riding for me. So we're stuck.
Ride well.

 

[GAJ]

Been riding since 1972.

It was not a big surprise when "close calls" became almost nonexistent after focusing on sight lines in the twisties and slowing down in general.

I rarely "make that pass" that I used to regularly as a younger/dumber rider.

Still in constant danger of course so I try and assume nothing.

 

[BillSmith]

While contemplating making another off-season push to play another year of football, lamented the process and was offered this advice/story by an assistant coach,

"One day, you'll be fishing with your son, step on a mossy rock and blow out your knee. And right then, you'll holler, 'I could have done this on the football field."

Or you could be descending carpeted stairs and snap your femur. Shit happens. Freedom is choosing where it happens.

 

[FXCLM5]

Yolo, some ppl die on the toilet

When it's your time, it's your time

 

[Cornfish]

Having ridden in a lot of different environments, I can understand the sentiment that we are all sitting ducks to some inattentive driver. And after spending a few days riding in the Bay Area again, I can see that as a distinct possibility in that environment. Although I tend to bristle at the comment, there is no question that the Bay Area presents its own unique set of challenges. In some of the less populated areas, it is far easier to eliminate the risk from other vehicles on the road by being aware and riding smart. But the Bay is the Bay. Driver's a foot (at least) into your lane on narrow roads in the Santa Cruz Mountains, or navigating the mess of 680, 880, 85, 280, etc., creates the need to ride a particular way, and no matter how diligent you are, there is a real risk.

But single-vehicle accidents (at least I thought) are mostly avoidable. Riding within your ability, knowing the situations to watch for, and not being afraid to roll off the throttle all make a huge difference. But my crash the other day was an eye-opener. I have seen and avoided debris in the roads for years, but I deluded myself into thinking I had it all figured out.

A friend dumped his bike on Page Mill coming into a corner where a truck had spilled dirt. This same friend has some jobs he is working on at Page Mill, and said he sees trucks doing jobs up there continually driving off the edge of the pavement, and stirring up dirt that settles on the lane. In my case, my strong assumption was that a landscaping truck had a jug of oil or gas fall out of the bed. I see those trucks everywhere (not just the Bay Area) with gear halfhazzardly thrown into the bed of the truck, not tied down and shifting around. At the end of the day, there are risks that all but the most cautious of riders are subject to.

In some ways, I wish I could be happy just toodling around. But I am not happy riding like that, and if that was all that was available to me, I wouldn't ride. I am addicted to leaning the bike in tight corners, rolling on the throttle, and feeling the bike accelerate. And my current bike at ~110 hp does all of that extremely well. I want more, not less. I also ride dirt, and while cars are not in the equation there, plenty of other dangers lurk. And in the next year or so, I will be buying an adventure bike where I will have cars AND dirt to contend with on any given day. Still, to date, I have hurt myself way more riding my mountain bike than I ever have riding a motorcycle.

No easy answers here. I think a huge part of it is the mental game, and if getting hurt gets too deep into your head, that is something to be aware of. My friend who dumped his bike on Page Mill has had a series of events that mentally took him out of the game. When we rode the other day, he tapped into some feelings of freedom and ripping that seem to have been lost. It seems like he might have rekindled a desire to ride in a more spirited fashion again, and he is even looking at new bikes. But I could tell by talking to him and seeing his approach that something changed. We walk a fine line out there.

Cautiously, aggressively oblivious seems to be the balance.

 

[mjj]

Everything has risk associated with it. Thoughtful people accept this, and make an informed decision whether to engage an activity and accept that risk.

Risk has two components: 1) the likelihood of adverse outcome, and 2) the severity of adverse outcome.

People who find themselves surprised by an adverse outcome, especially when engaging an activity with a higher risk, IMO were not thoughtful about it and did not make the informed decision.

A conscious goal as a parent of boys (gender is not key here but socially, it is a factor) was to teach them how to engage activities with higher risk, and how to moderate the risk. I assumed they would find their own risky activities, and I wanted them to be equipped to be thoughtful about them. So, we learned SCUBA diving, open water sailing, mountain biking, and now they both ride moto.

 

[Blankpage]

I’ve been so lucky to never have had a serious injury. Used to rip around the backroads pushing it in jeans. One crash would have been life changing. I don’t ride anything like I used to.
Motorcycles are dangerous, I can’t be without one but also don’t recommend them to anyone.

 

[budman]

Everything has risk associated with it. Thoughtful people accept this, and make an informed decision whether to engage an activity and accept that risk.

Risk has two components: 1) the likelihood of adverse outcome, and 2) the severity of adverse outcome.

100% life is a risk. Most often enjoying it is a higher risk.

People who find themselves surprised by an adverse outcome, especially when engaging an activity with a higher risk, IMO were not thoughtful about it and did not make the informed decision.

100% agree. The mature "us" is better at identifying the risk outcome, but I believe most of us did some of that as we aged into mature. Certainly the very risky stuff (as teenagers) was more at the front of our non-connected lobes of youth and since our minds were not fully formed we did higher risk activities without the full outcome analysis and if we did do a deeper dive analysis it was easier to brush off.
"Won't happen to me"
"I can do this"
"Etc"

A conscious goal as a parent of boys (gender is not key here but socially, it is a factor) was to teach them how to engage activities with higher risk, and how to moderate the risk.

The basic goal of parenting is to keep your kids safe and inform them about the risks and moderate as you said mjj.

Doing that is a balance of enjoying life, really living and is it worth doing.

Yes.. I know it is dangerous and Yes... I try to mitigate and Yes.. as I have matured I do take fewer risks... but I like really living so...

 

[N4teTheGreat]

I'm aware of the risk, but it seems I don't care about that as much as I care about a well carved twisty road. I do my best to mitigate risk, things like expecting to find gravel or a car around a blind corner have served me well a few times, but I also acknowledge that all it would take is a momentary lapse in line choice or some bad luck with a car fully in my lane (I've had a few really tight squeezes with bro dozers on backroads) to cause a lot of hurt, or just a likely roll credits on the comedy that has been my lifes show. I don't have a death wish, but I sure do have a strong drive to ride motorcycles (lets call it a lifewish?) So I just keep rolling the dice and try to keep those risks in the back of my mind to moderate the temptation to ride closer to limit than I should.

 

[gixxerjeff]

I've had versions of this question cross my mind for years now.
I kinda boiled it down to one or two basic points.
I began riding and got my first bike when I was 15 and have been riding non-stop ever since. Like Budman has often said about himself, for me it was love at first sight and wreaked of next-level cool.
I am so grateful I found riding and began when I did.
Do I believe if things were different I'd try to learn later in life? I kinda doubt it.
So much of my life has been built around my joy of riding. I cant imagine not riding...but that's because I’ve ridden for most of my life.
Things could've been so different. Relationships and other responsibilities could've conceivably had more influence if I hadn't led every situation with "Love me, love my riding"
Fear has never had anything to do with it, simply because I was addicted before I ever had a chance to know any better.