Track skills vs Street skills

[*VillageIdiot*]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present RyanB with Post of the Day:

 

[}Dragon{]

 

[*VillageIdiot*]

 

[}Dragon{]

I bet ya haven't seen that one in a while

 

[MrCrash]

Re: Re: Track skills vs Street skills

Mr. Crash: You HAVE to be wrong about traction. How many times have you hit a gravel/dirt/oil/coolant patch on the Track? On the track have you ever hit a great gaping asshole of a pothole while coming through a blind turn at XXmph in the middle of thick automobile traffic? How about getting hit by/running over Lumber/Furniture/hub caps/newspapers/misc. garbage/Deer/Birds/Rabid Wombats? Street riders as part of day to day living deal with road conditions that would have every racer at his track day demanding a refund.

Track riders don't live in a sterile bubble free of road hazards. If they live where you live, see these same hazards as often as you do. They're not from another planet. As many people have mentioned, a track derived skillset gives you more options to deal with those kinds of hazards.

Do you really deal with rabid wombats flying at you out of trucks every day? Fuck, I think I would probably quit riding after the third one...

Aside from the misc. nuances of dreadfully worse road conditions, Street riders have to deal with a couple of brutal killers that Track riders do not have to think about, Cars and oncoming traffic. Sometimes you have to cut it close at the track when going through a corner, I’m sure, but as some one who is commuting almost 500 miles a week on his bike these days through San Francisco and on 101, I think I can safely say that little on the track will help me to learn more about splitting lanes with the maniacs who try to crush, squeeze and destroy me on a regular basis.

Sounds like issue there is with reading and predicting traffic patterns. Did we come to any conclusion regarding that? Are we referring to that as a skill, or as experience?

If you don’t believe me, ask some of the Bay Bridge commute kids what they have to say about it.

I was part of that club for years, with a 100 mile daily commute not unlike yours. These days, I'm way more conservative in traffic than I used to be. I don't think it's because my "street skills" are rusty - moreso because I'm no longer numb to the threats around me.

 

[Wrong Way]

I was going to do a track day next week. It is a good thing I read this thread. Maybe I can get my money back and save all the grief of not learning anything. After two decades of street riding, how could the track possibly have anything to offer me?

 

[*VillageIdiot*]

I was going to do a track day next week. It is a good thing I read this thread. Maybe I can get my money back and save all the grief of not learning anything. After two decades of street riding, how could the track possibly have anything to offer me?

sure as hell won't save you from rabid wombats mario .

okay I'll stop bastardizing the thread sorry folks

 

[Kensaku]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Track skills vs Street skills

*Sigh* With the exception of Fast Turning Techniques you won't learn any of the above on the Track any better than you will on the street. Hell, the street will teach you more about hard braking, trail braking and throttle control than you will on the track because you have to use it all a lot more often and a lot more suddenly than on the track courses I've seen. There is also the lack of consistancy factor in unknown roads.

Mike - I'm disappointed in this comment. The street will NOT teach you about hard braking, trail braking, or throttle control...it's really as simple as that. Additionally, the repetitive nature of the track does indeed result in reaching the limits of braking/throttle on your bike than the street. When someone crashes in front of you going 100+ mph, that's as sudden as encountering a deer on the road...

 

[Traq]

when you're comparing track vs. street what kind of bikes do you think I'm talking about?

I've been to the track enough to know that more than 90% of the bike there were sportbikes. Since these are people who goto the track and then ride on the street also, we can only use them for our comparison.

As usual people on BARF will support their case with every possible "what if" scenario but that basis of track skills and street skills can only be compared using comparable machinery which in this case are sport bikes.

Here I thought the point of the post was "does track riding make you better on the street than every other rider out there that doesn't go to the track."

Track monkeys always think they're better at street riding than everyone else. Its the ego. Course the well ridden street guys know having an ego while riding is a bad thing.

I doubt many others interpreted this thread with the extremely narrow view you're applying to it. And if that's the case it should be moved over to the racing forum so the majority of us that don't go to the track don't have to avoid clicking it.

 

[Robert R1]

Here I thought the point of the post was "does track riding make you better on the street than every other rider out there that doesn't go to the track."

Track monkeys always think they're better at street riding than everyone else. Its the ego. Course the well ridden street guys know having an ego while riding is a bad thing.

I doubt many others interpreted this thread with the extremely narrow view you're applying to it. And if that's the case it should be moved over to the racing forum so the majority of us that don't go to the track don't have to avoid clicking it.

What is funny the most entertaining is that the people who've been to the track and street ridden have a much different opinion than the street riders who've never been to the track yet can debate the pros and cons of it.

Ego's so big that most actually slow down on the street after riding the track. Funny, I've always found "street riders" always with a chip on their shoulder to try and prove something to the "track guys" in their "backyard."

 

[}Dragon{]

Ego's so big that most actually slow down on the street after riding the track. Funny, I've always found "street riders" always with a chip on their shoulder to try and prove something to the "track guys" in their "backyard."

Ego kills. Track. Canyons. Street. It don't matter.

If you can keep your ego at home, like ABN375 has to leave his pen0r when he goes out- we all could live a lil longer

 

[com3]

Actually drivers are better in Japan as well as most of Europe than here, more skilled, more courteous and more aware of two wheelers. Thus despite the closer tolerances the predictability and attention of the drivers in combination with the overall high quality of the road surfaces (few surprise potholes etc) and lower speeds (Japan) tend to make for a safer and less chaotic splitting situation than is the case here.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... what is it with you and japan this, europe that, okinawa kazuksini habinachi sony viao and shit? you've never ridden the track. how do you expect to be taken seriously when you live, mentally, on the other side of the world and have zero experience on the track?

i've done ONE trackday. just in case you missed it...i've done ONE (1) trackday. i learned more in that ~5 hours of riding than i did in the last 6 years of street riding.

no, jason, i didn't learn how to go faster on the street. i learned better body position. i learned how hard one really can get on the binders safely (you know, in case i'm lane splitting in japan and i'm 1mm too wide). blah blah blah... i'd waste more precious finger-muscle-cells on you, but you'll never ride the track. you're too stubborn. you'll continue to banter, spout, and spew your infinate knowledge of the inner workings of the yakuza and how everyone in tokyo refers to you as kabuki-mono...but you'll never know the feel of a race track.

 

[com3]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Track skills vs Street skills

I get hundreds if not thousands of new track riders through our school every year. Many of these are VERY experienced street riders. And yet the kind of feedback we get is "OMG! I thought I knew how to ride a motorcycle! You guys have really shown me how much more there is to learn!"

BEST. POST. EVAR!@

 

[Kensaku]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... what is it with you and japan this, europe that, okinawa kazuksini habinachi sony viao and shit? you've never ridden the track. how do you expect to be taken seriously when you live, mentally, on the other side of the world and have zero experience on the track?

i've done ONE trackday. just in case you missed it...i've done ONE (1) trackday. i learned more in that ~5 hours of riding than i did in the last 6 years of street riding.

no, jason, i didn't learn how to go faster on the street. i learned better body position. i learned how hard one really can get on the binders safely (you know, in case i'm lane splitting in japan and i'm 1mm too wide). blah blah blah... i'd waste more precious finger-muscle-cells on you, but you'll never ride the track. you're too stubborn. you'll continue to banter, spout, and spew your infinate knowledge of the inner workings of the yakuza and how everyone in tokyo refers to you as kabuki-mono...but you'll never know the feel of a race track.

oh my...

 

[Traq]

What is funny the most entertaining is that the people who've been to the track and street ridden have a much different opinion than the street riders who've never been to the track yet can debate the pros and cons of it.

Yes, and their opinions are usually presented in such a pompous manner that its no wonder they go over like lead balloons with the 'lesser' people they're seemingly trying to impress.

Like I said before, everything you can learn on the track can be learned on the street, but not the other way around. When you asked for an example and I brought up the mind numbingly obvious, dealing with other traffic, you posted some assumed attempt at humor about encounter oil and crashing...what that had to do with dealing with traffic I wouldn't know, but it certainly didn't come close to rebutting the fact its impossible to learn anything on the track about that.

 

[Holeshot]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Track skills vs Street skills

*Sigh* With the exception of Fast Turning Techniques you won't learn any of the above on the Track any better than you will on the street. Hell, the street will teach you more about hard braking, trail braking and throttle control than you will on the track because you have to use it all a lot more often and a lot more suddenly than on the track courses I've seen. There is also the lack of consistancy factor in unknown roads.

Wow. Just simply, wow. eldritch, how can you say this not having done some track days?

 

[}Dragon{]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Track skills vs Street skills

Wow. Just simply, wow. eldritch, how can you say this not having done some track days?

Quit acting as if you're better than other people and just ride.

God, it gets old.

 

[Ducky_Fresh]

Eldritch: That's kinda like in Good Will Hunting where Robin William's charachter calls Will out about "knowing" the Cistene Chapel.

Just because you've read a book about something, or heard what someone told you, doesn't make it primary knowledge.

I know it's somewhat apples and oranges, but the race track is an entirely different realm of motorcycle riding than the street. In my 2-3 years of riding on the street, there was never a moment in which I ever came close to bringing my motorcycle to the same limitations that I put it through on the track when I'm out there..

No possible way a street rider comes close. That's certain death.

 

[V4]

After my first day of track SCHOOL, (thank you Reg) at Laguna Seca before Thunderhill even existed, I found I didn't know jake about street riding....

thank you...

throttle control...? sure...try turn 11 and the entering Corkscrew and exit in the fog...

body position...? yup...that hump before turn 1 at the straightaway, then trying to get 1,2 &3 right ...

braking....? approaching turn 11 and finding everyone else NOT in the same line....

 

[Robert R1]

Like I said before, everything you can learn on the track can be learned on the street, but not the other way around. When you asked for an example and I brought up the mind numbingly obvious, dealing with other traffic, you posted some assumed attempt at humor about encounter oil and crashing...what that had to do with dealing with traffic I wouldn't know, but it certainly didn't come close to rebutting the fact its impossible to learn anything on the track about that.

We obivously have a very different definition of "learn." Sure you can learn the basics on the street but actually learning to ride to explore your limits and the limits of your bike requires tracktime, unless you want a memorial ride for you at some point by constantly trying your luck on the street.

Goto at open trackday. You'll learn about a whole new concept of dealing with traffic that you simply won't learn on the street. The traffic scenarios from the street and the track are completely different thus you must be in that enviornment repeatedly to learn how to deal with it. They're directly non transferable. On the street you don't have deal with this: When bikes go wizzing by you left at right at any point on the track through out the day, you'll have a whole different understanding of what track traffic means. Same goes for when you're the one doing the passing.

Above is not a common street scenario but it is for the track and one that is very nerve wrecking to the long time street rider who is not accustomed to it.