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Weighting the outside peg….

We do it in supermoto all the time dirt bikes with slicks elbow up leg out. From what I've learned it doesn't matter what style you use it's how you use it. The guys that ride neutral can be totally fast. The good thing about the leg out style is if the bike slips more than you want you can dab pretty easily.
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One of these days, someone will install a bunch of strain gauges on the pegs and bars of a moto to actually measure the rider’s forces. It’ll be a crazy challenging engineering problem to make sense of the data. But it sure would be cool to see some results.
 
stangmx13 said:
You are making up a difference btw CoM & CoG, refusing to explain that difference, then making a bunch of claims based on that difference. Are you trolling?

The claims in your prev post are incorrect. They arent helpful in this thread.
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Years ago I was having trouble with certain turns and the bike not steering as well as it should. This went on for about a whole season or so, until an overzealous Skadooski hit me going into T9 (Thill) and punted me into the turn worker station. Totally messed my left leg up. We got the bike together and went out for the next race and for some reason, the bike turned like it should and was full money. I realized at some point during that race that due to the left leg being mashed, I was unable push on it...as an inside support or outside leg. Turns out, I'd be inadvertently pushing on the left leg (only) when it was an outside leg, causing the bike to stand up/ resist lean angle. It didn't take much...but taking the weight off the inside peg, even a little bit made the bike add lean angle like it should. \

it was a weird and enlightening way to learn what pushing on the outside peg does.

SFMCjohn said:
I wonder if “putting weight on the outside peg”/“apply pressure to the outside peg” is why we see the MotoGP guys take their inside foot completely off the peg and dangle their leg? are they setting up Mr Code’s pivot steering?

why they do that has been explained to me several times, but I can never remember the answer. :laughing
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MotoGP bike brake unlike anything else on 2 wheels. Because of the massive amount of grip and braking force, the riders are using their legs and arms to keep themselves in position. Given their body shift has already taken place when they go to the brakes, if they have their foot on the inside peg, they'll be unable to not put force/ weight into the inside peg, thus adding lean angle. They want to stay as upright as possible at the hardest braking points, trailing the brakes in. Notice when they put the leg back (as the bike's added lean angle), the bike steers/ rotates and they're gone.

tuxumino said:
I'm not really sure I understand what the discussion is about.
If I'm at the track and coming into a left hand corner I shift my body to the left, this adds more weight to the left (inside) peg. Now I can push on my right leg to drive my right foot into the right (outside) peg.
Is this what y'all callin' weighting the outside peg?
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Weighting the peg = the peg(s) carrying the riders bodyweight. This Is how I've always thought about the term, to keep is simple for myself. When you "push" on a peg, you're taking weight off the seat/ other leg. See above: I wouldn't suggest putting weight on the outside peg on corner entry.
 
thanks Berto, I'm still not clear on this "weighting the outside peg" but to play with it I just signed for a trackday at Sears Pt this coming Monday.
 
Ever been on a bicycle and leaned it right and left underneath you by standing on the pegs and bending one leg and keeping the other straight then switching, letting the bike lean back and forth under you? Pretty much like that.
 
Holeshot said:
Years ago I was having trouble with certain turns and the bike not steering as well as it should. This went on for about a whole season or so, until an overzealous Skadooski hit me going into T9 (Thill) and punted me into the turn worker station. Totally messed my left leg up. We got the bike together and went out for the next race and for some reason, the bike turned like it should and was full money. I realized at some point during that race that due to the left leg being mashed, I was unable push on it...as an inside support or outside leg. Turns out, I'd be inadvertently pushing on the left leg (only) when it was an outside leg, causing the bike to stand up/ resist lean angle. It didn't take much...but taking the weight off the inside peg, even a little bit made the bike add lean angle like it should. \

it was a weird and enlightening way to learn what pushing on the outside peg
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Next time you are riding on the freeway, try to weight one peg fully without changing anything else. Tense that leg and extend it a little so that you unweight your butt and other leg.

Do it slowly and smoothly. Don’t affect the bars or move your body’s CG. Notice what happens to the bike’s lean angle - nada.

Do it violently as hard as you can. Notice what happens to the lean angle - a very mild slow change that may result in a lane change.

Where does your track peg weighting fit in that spectrum in terms of strength? Do you think any of that was affecting your entries?
 
I don't really focus much on weighting pegs when I'm riding, but I found the leg thing interesting. Turns out the overall problem was how I was gripping the tank, but the hurt leg highlighted that I was stiffening it/ pushing down on it for some reason. I find the use I had for the outside peg minimal...but it does help to shift the bike under a rider, IMO....if needed.
 
This past weekend I had an opportunity to ride 27 miles (2x) without my hands on the bars. Mostly straight road but there were a couple high speed sweepers.

Those miles gave me an opportunity to see what could be done to control direction of the bike with feet/legs/weight shifting/upper body/lower body/driving my knee into the tank, and everything else I could think of as well as combinations of them all. I even used aerodynamic drag.

Absolutely none of those are effective for meaningful directional change. The sweepers required huge upper body lean, knee into the tank did nothing, same for peg weighting. Interestingly, sticking my arm out with a cupped hand had the most reaction from the bike. The rest just didn’t work.

Doing all those things with hands on the bars = immediate directional changes. Thats a clue.

An interesting side note is that I wasn’t really aware of how many inputs I made to the handlebars when riding in a straight line. Once my hands were off the bars it took all manner of constant movements just to keep the bike from wondering off the intended direction/ path.
 
The bike won't won't add any usable amount of lean angle with hands on the bars. The self stabilizing part, etc...
 
Using your hands to turn the bars will instantly cause a change in lean angle.
 
As I keep an eye on the "does weighting the pegs even do anything at all" discussion, my view is as follows. That the effects of weight placement and positioning are very muted on pavement, are vastly more obvious in the dirt, and are in your face when you're doing this.

If you don't do the right things - which often look like riding a trials bike on a sandy hillside, with massive counter-lean where the bike is down to the inside and the hips are swung way out to the outside (and guess which peg has all the weight) - down you go. Pavement-only people are blind to these things because the effects manifest when traction is exceeded - a rarity and pucker-causing disaster in the paved world, and a way of life when doing the fun slidey things.

On this tangent, now that I have a second wheelset for my 500, I'm going to throw studded tires on the OEM wheels and romp this in a few months when the ice comes, rather than the occasional snail's pace ride. The ultimate traction lab environment, this.

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… say the bike knows how and almost always is in perfect form.
When weighing the peg is to keep the body balance on top of the bike.
 
Enchanter said:
This past weekend I had an opportunity to ride 27 miles (2x) without my hands on the bars. Mostly straight road but there were a couple high speed sweepers.

Those miles gave me an opportunity to see what could be done to control direction of the bike with feet/legs/weight shifting/upper body/lower body/driving my knee into the tank, and everything else I could think of as well as combinations of them all. I even used aerodynamic drag.
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It was interesting following during your science experiment. Nice job on the no handed 80mph sweepers.
Your cupped hand did easily show adjustments to the line.
 
Holeshot said:
Years ago I was having trouble with certain turns and the bike not steering as well as it should. This went on for about a whole season or so, until an overzealous Skadooski hit me going into T9 (Thill) and punted me into the turn worker station. Totally messed my left leg up. We got the bike together and went out for the next race and for some reason, the bike turned like it should and was full money. I realized at some point during that race that due to the left leg being mashed, I was unable push on it...as an inside support or outside leg. Turns out, I'd be inadvertently pushing on the left leg (only) when it was an outside leg, causing the bike to stand up/ resist lean angle. It didn't take much...but taking the weight off the inside peg, even a little bit made the bike add lean angle like it should. \

it was a weird and enlightening way to learn what pushing on the outside peg does.
Click to expand...

So in playing with weighting the outside peg both in the twisties and yesterday at the track that was exactly the same thing I found: weighting the outside peg made the bike resist leaning into the corner. Spoke with an instructor/control rider and they were no, weight the inside peg.
At an FTD I think it was Augie teaching the body positioning class and he said weighting the inside peg makes it easier to lean the bike.
I can maybe see weighting the outside peg before tipping in to kind of give the bike a little more stored energy for when you weight the inside peg and turn but not in the corner.
 
Interesting. By no means was I wanting to push on the outside leg, but for some reason I was doing it. It's interesting that it took a Sadowski mashing my leg to highlight this weird habit. Good to hear you had the same thing N and knew to recognize it. Years ago, Hawk Mazotta showed me a trick to stand the bike off the corner quicker by putting weight on the outside foot and letting the bike shift underneath your butt before heavy acceleration, giving a larger rear tire contact patch. There's some hand movements to make this all happen, but it was another enlightening moment.
 
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