whats some good habits to practice in the twisties?

[lumpia]

so ive been practicing looking through the turn as far as possible and using my peripherals to watch the apex, and getting my braking and downshifting done as smooth as possible while rev matching before i enter the turn. lately ive been toying with shifting more weight to the inside, and a little bit of peg weighting.

i like the weight shift, i can feel the bike turning in alot faster. im still too scared to go hanging off the bike though. sometimes it feels like im bout to fall flat off the bike. should i roll on the throttle a little more to up the G count?

any advice from you more experienced riders on what good habits to develop before i go and start developing bad ones?

 

[Baptistro]

Look as far into the turn as possible at all times, whether there be a vanishing point or not, but make sure that you open up your field of vision, and not target fixate on the vanishing point or an apex, or for that matter, anything out there.

If there is something on the road, don't focus on it, identify it, and look for where you want to go. Be aware.

If the vanishing point in a turn is coming closer to you, chances are you are facing a decreasing radius turn, if it is going away from you, it is most likely an increasing radius turn, be aware of what you are looking at.

The bike will go where you look, work on your visual skills first and foremost, worry about the little nuances of body position, etc. later as speed increases.

As long as your bike feels stable, there's no need to worry about the little things. If you get to speed and the bike acts funny, time to change something in your riding style or the bike's setup. If your bike's not acting funny, work on your visual skills.

Try to make it seem as though you are watching a movie, not a slide show. You will probably know what I mean.

Also, try to get on the gas as soon as possible. For the most part, a bike is more stable in a turn while the gas is being rolled on gently, roll on the throttle more aggressively, as your lean angle decreases. After reaching the desired lean angle for any given turn, do not chop the throttle, unless absolutely necessary, and at worst, maintain neutral throttle, but optimally roll it on.

If you are not doing this already, reduce your current speed and practice this technique, you should feel the improvements in your riding immediately. Remember, slow down to go fast. This applies in more ways than one. Once you've "mastered" a technique, when you move on to the next one, tone it down a notch so that you have more resources to devote to the "new" thing in your riding.

Just my .02

Be safe out there

 

[budbandit]

One of the best habbits would be to get yourself to a track school or track day as soon as possible. That will make a significant difference that will be very notable.

For street riding it sounds like you are on the right track working on looking thru to the vanishing point and concentrating on smoothness are basic pillars of good riding. Some are a lot more enthusiastic than others about hanging off.

You may want to think about lines but it is important to remember that the absolute fastest line thru some corners on the street may not be the one you want to take as you may want to give yourself some more room away from the center line.

While you are thinking about riding technique check yourself and make sure that you are relaxed on the bike and that you are carrying the majority of your weight on your feet and ass and not your hands. This is especially helpful on goat trails. Concentrate on relaxed, loose flow, let the suspension do its job. Purge your mind of anger and other distractions. Cover the brakes, keep hydrated, don't ride when overly tired, hung over, sick, stoned or otherwise tweaked, drunk or impaired.

YMMV but that may be a reasonable continuation of what sounds like good stuff that you are already doing.

 

[Trident]

If there is something on the road, don't focus on it, identify it, and look for where you want to go.

=======Great point. Target fixation is such a bizarre thing. You tell yourself that you're too good, smart, etc to have it happen to you. And then you do it. I really learned about that concept when I started getting into fairly serious single-track mountain biking, telling myself, of my god, I have to stay away from that, just before I ran right into it.
I've actually gotten in the habit (probably subconscious) of turning my head slightly away from whatever object I'm trying to avoid (when possible), probably since I know I am suceptible to that.
And, as always, dress for the crash, not the ride.

 

[Baptistro]

Avoiding target fixation at all costs is one of the toughest but most valuable skills you can develop, that must be consciously practiced or risk losing that skill. There are also different forms of target fixation.

i.e., we have all lane shared and had a vehicle unexpectedly come into our lane, causing us to tense up on the bars. Believe it or not, if you were surprised, it was because you were target fixated on something.

Sometimes, while splitting, we get the perception of "tunnel vision", our field of visionnarrowing down to the space between the two lanes of cars we are "splitting". The fact that you are "fixated" in this tunnel is a form of target fixation. Open up your view and use your field of vision as an everchanging movie you are watching. I guarantee that while you are watching a movie, without you even knowing, you can identify just about everything on the screen at any given moment in time without having to shift your eyes and do it consciously.

It is almost guaranteed that unless the vehicle that surprises you is behind you or outside your peripheral vision, you fixated on something.

There are those times when it seems that you anticipate everything that every vehicle in front of you is going to do, and you avoid it all with seemingly plenty of time to spare, those are the moments where your field of awareness was widenend and you were able to process all the info available in your field of sight.

 

[westie]

Don't grab a handful of break...

 

[Baptistro]

Don't grab a handful of break...

At least not while leaned over, although with time and practice, getting on the brakes, or at least being able to slow down while leaned over without losing control of the bike is quite possible, and also an invaluable skill.

While developing your skills, try to limit your actions while executing turns. Your entry speed into a corner will forever be a changing equation of your skillset, familiarity, and confidence in your bike and tires, as well as familiarity with the particular turn and conditions.

For now, as far as a basic skills are concerned, try to break it down into sections and complete each in turn. When approaching a turn, set your body position for what you want it to be, whether you hang off or not, do your shifting, get on the brakes as much as you need to set your entry speed to a comfortable level, pick your turn in point (you may have done this already), look through the turn, turn the bike in (you already picked your spot, trust that you will hit it), and roll on the throttle as soon as you have completed your turn in motion (if you're still in the process of leaning the bike, stay off the gas as you will usually lighten the front end and possibly change your line). Always keep looking ahead, find the exit, and get on the gas harder as you are picking up the bike.

You can get on the gas harder, earlier if you actively pick the bike up with a countersteering motion as you are exiting the turn. As you get progressively faster, you will want to lean the bike over as quickly as possible, and pick the bike up as quickly as possible, but those are slightly more advanced skills that you can work on later.

 

[Baptistro]

BTW, I am by no means an expert, nor do I consider myself a "fast guy" I have just been privvy to excellent information from a number of good friends, instructors, and experienced riders, and only wish to pass along things that I find have helped me along in my riding. So take what I say as just that, my .02

 

[staRang]

A good habit that I like to practice, is... Not crashing.

 

[Baptistro]

A good habit that I like to practice, is... Not crashing.

IMHO, not crashing is a direct drivative of being in control of your ride, hence the best way to avoid crashing is to develop a skillset, always be aware of its(your) limitations, and to take it down one notch when learning/applying a new skill

 

[xxxmph]

Everything the others say sounds good. You shouldn't feel like your going to fall over Maybe your not carrying enough speed through the turn. If your looking all the way through the turn, you should feel like you can roll on the throttle more. Also, you don't need to hang off to ride twisties quickly, don't even worry about hanging off. Just concentrate on countersteering and looking in the direction of the turn, never look down and never look at guardrails, mountainsides, cars, bikes, or anything else but where you want to go.

 

[Hamburger Legs]

Also, try to get on the gas as soon as possible. For the most part, a bike is more stable in a turn while the gas is being rolled on gently, roll on the throttle more aggressively, as your lean angle decreases. After reaching the desired lean angle for any given turn, do not chop the throttle, unless absolutely necessary, and at worst, maintain neutral throttle, but optimally roll it on.

Hey John Sup? I love great advise from other riders! I was just curious though about the part I quoted above. I KNOW that your bike is more stable with constant to increased throttle, BUT, what about trail braking? I mean, you hear/see the racers do it all the time. That means that they are not on the gas, and still holding some brake at least a 1/3 of the way through the turn, right? Anyway, I'm just kinda throwing that out there to see what people think about it. Thanks.

-John E.

 

[Robert R1]

Do the same backroads over and over. That way you won't have any surprise corners and you'll be able to work various aspects of your riding. Learn to stay loose and relaxed on the bike. You'll be more sensitive to the feedback from the chassis and tires that way.

Be smooth with your controls. There's no reason to jerk the bike around. It'll just take longer to stabilize.

Hamburger, trail braking is a fairly advanced technique and can lead to an easy crash if the rider doesn't know how to respond to certain feeback(s) from the bike. There are plenty of other things to work on before Trail Braking becomes an issue.

 

[Trackho]

No brakes

Except for dear, cages, and unforeseen obstacles---there is little need for brakes at all in the twisties---99% of corners can be negotiated with proper throttle control if you know the corners----Having spewed that---I still think--BOTTOM LINE---go learn to ride a track you will learn 100X more in a single day than a month on the roads---plus its alot safer

 

[GetaGripGreg]

You may want to think about lines but it is important to remember that the absolute fastest line thru some corners on the street may not be the one you want to take as you may want to give yourself some more room away from the center line.

The fastest line through any given corner is almost always the same line (or very close to it). However, on the street, you are not looking for laptimes, you are looking for pleasure without meeting an F-150 head on. So what Budbandit said is true... Street lines are totally different from "track" lines. If you've read up on racing or taken a school, forget about it on the street. The street is all about surviving the idiots around you. That means taking conservative lines that give you room to maneuver in emergencies.

Never forget that a truck could come around the corner in your lane while you feel totally at ease in the corner. If you are struggling with your technique and feel like you may fall off from hanging off too much, you may be going too fast for your skills. "Feeling like you might fall off" means that you could likely go much faster, and the extra speed would counteract the "falling" feeling. Work on using a less agressive body position so that you feel "planted" on the bike. And think about how your are connected to the bike when you feel like you might fall off. Sounds like you are not placing your body against the bike correctly. (as I am working to resolve myself).


Try working to plant your outside elbow and knee against the tank. When you feel like you are barely hanging on, your outside arm and leg could support much of your weight.

 

[clutchy]

as far as hanging off, try shifting your butt from side to side across the seat, it's a good precursor to hanging off the bike and alot of times it's really all you need to do.

i used to hang off like crazy, but now i just shift my weight around a little bit and i get the same effects.

try it, just a little at a time right before you hit a corner shift your butt to the side you're going to turn into and then drop the bike into the corner. you should notice that the bike isn't leaned as far over as it would be if you were just sitting straight in the seat. this gives you more cornering clearance as well as tire contact patch.

 

[magnadude]

What exactly is "hanging off" the bike? The MSF course taught
the "look-lean-roll" with your legs hugging the tank at all times.

Also when would you use hanging-off versus the not hanging-off?

 

[juicedaddy]

Neel,
You will find that if you lean your body in the direction that you're turning by sliding off the seat a little, it will greatly help your ability to turn. If you watch some guys, they actually have their whole body leaning off the bike with only their outside leg straddling the seat. This changes the center of gravity and puts more of the weight on the inside which allows you to turn more without rolling the bike over more. If you're going to try it, do it slowly first. You can use the technique at your normal speeds and you'll see that your bike doesn't roll over as much, yet you turn the same amount. No more scraping pegs!

 

[magnadude]

Thanks Justin . I'll try it out. Hopefully I'll get a chance to practice before the next group ride.

 

[V4]

Lot of good advices here......

I suggest taking an Advanced Motorcycle Skill course too.....

Makes you aware of some of the simple basics but often overlooked things such as turning your head, visual scanning, braking, and emergency tactics......

It made me more aware of my own lazy & bad habits when I ride and learn to be aware of them and work them out.....

As TrackHo suggests, take a trackschool as well......

Take one step-at-a-time being smooth and safely....

don't need to go fast to enjoy riding, just enjoy the ride itself....