When should the US consider Covid endemic?

[tzrider]

I don't think we can entirely blame those who didn't get vaccinated for the variants, particularly omicron.

COVID becomes endemic when most of the population has been exposed and new cases aren't overwhelming the hospital system.

Now that COVID is in animal reservoirs, there will be other variants, even if the human population is mostly vaccinated against known strains. I do think a higher percentage of vaccination would have slowed the spread and reduced the mutation rate. It could still help, but it feels like the best opportunity has passed us by.

 

[Climber]

We are only a tiny portion of the world population, we're not really that relevant when it comes to mutations.

It's a numbers game, when it comes to mutations and especially where there are large numbers of unvaccinated people. In some ways, that does favor vaccinated nations as the unvaccinated mutations probably won't be proof against vaccinations.

 

[stangmx13]

COVID becomes endemic when most of the population has been exposed and new cases aren't overwhelming the hospital system.

This is the part that I'm most worried about, kinda the only part I'm worried about actually. The past 2 years, hospitals filled up starting in Dec. New variants & the American holiday season have contributed. Will this cycle continue? Should we just hope to not get sick or injured in those months? If it takes annual boosters to be confident COVID won't kill you, I wonder if enough of the population will actually get them to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed every damn year. Recent history says 'no'

 

[bikeama]

Edited for my opinion. You can not fix stupid, and those who have not been vaccinated by now, will not be getting vaccinated. Sorry but if you are not vaccinated stay home and don't ask the medical community to take care of you.

I am amazed at the ugliness this has brought out in people. Pretty sad.

Your words, not mine.

While I don't have much empathy anymore for unvaccinated people getting seriously sick, I also don't think we should leave them on their own to die. We're talking about American lives here.

Background on my ugly comment.

I lost a good friend and his wife to Covid, yes they were anti-vac and died just days apart. I saw the effect on his family, no one should go through that.

My son-in-law had to sit over a day in a Texas hospital hallway on an IV with pancreatitis. Why? the rooms were full of unvaccinated with Covid.

My daughter's scan showed she needed vascular surgery at Standford. The rooms were so full no elective surgeries. Her surgery was called elective as it might be cleared with an outpatient procedure. In the outpatient procedure, the surgeon found her vein was so tight between two bones he could not put a shunt in. She is now scheduled for surgery at Standford Hospital and a room for a couple of days. Not elective anymore

So yes if you are so stupid that you think Covid is BS and Gates wants to put microchips in you. You are on your own. If the Hospital has room sure let the un-vaxed in BUT tell them if the ICU is needed for a heart attack they will be moved. Yes, cold-blooded, but maybe it will get some stupid people to get vaccinated. Could say more but don't want to get political.

 

[AdamFiveFive]

The vaccines developed very rapidly with money from 1st world countries has been made available to 3rd world countries.

What I've heard is that they aren't keeping up with the available supply with their vaccinations, so less is being shipped to them because it would just go to waste. These vaccines do have a shelf life and some have very rigorous storage requirements.

There's a lot of issues with 3rd world countries. Look at all of the other aide sent to 3rd world countries, that somehow doesn't make it into the hands of the poor people in those countries. We send money, food, medical supplies; and trust a corrupt dictator to distribute it. With food, the only way to feed the poor people in those countries is to directly feed them. Not just send it over, and trust the local authorities to do what's right. Some non-government agency like The Red Cross actually has to set up the kitchen and hand out the meals. I think that has to happen with 3rd world vaccine distribution. An NGO like Doctors Without Borders has to physically set up the vaccination station and put the shots into the arms of the people. Not just send vaccines to the country, and hope that the corrupt government does the right thing.

 

[Climber]

There's a lot of issues with 3rd world countries. Look at all of the other aide sent to 3rd world countries, that somehow doesn't make it into the hands of the poor people in those countries. We send money, food, medical supplies; and trust a corrupt dictator to distribute it. With food, the only way to feed the poor people in those countries is to directly feed them. Not just send it over, and trust the local authorities to do what's right. Some non-government agency like The Red Cross actually has to set up the kitchen and hand out the meals. I think that has to happen with 3rd world vaccine distribution. An NGO like Doctors Without Borders has to physically set up the vaccination station and put the shots into the arms of the people. Not just send vaccines to the country, and hope that the corrupt government does the right thing.

Agreed. I've heard many stories about 90% of the aid sent being grabbed or held by the leaders in 3rd world countries to fatten their own bank accounts.

It's not the donator's fault, it's the people in those countries who have allowed themselves to get taken over by greedy, selfish leaders. Sometimes revolution is necessary when things have gone too far, otherwise 99.9% of the country lives in misery and passing that on to their kids and grandchildren.

 

[AdamFiveFive]

I've heard many stories about 90% of the aid sent

Unfortunately, even with legitimate organizations, 100% of the money does not go to the people who need the help. A non-profit business is still a business. There's overhead, operations cost, logistics.....payroll, supplies, contract services..... You can only imagine what it cost to ship food and water to a 3rd world country, hire local workers, rent local facilities, sometimes bribe local officials, and then send an armed security detail to protect your workers and the supplies. If you don't hire your own Private Military contractor; warlords will hijack your load and take your people hostage for ransom. The cost to hand out clean water and bandages is probably ten times what the water and bandages are worth. It really boggles the mind that if you don't spend $100,000 for some mercenaries, you can't dish out ten cents worth of protein porridge. I suspect that it probably coast $200 to administer a $20 vaccine.

 

[Yakoo752]

We provide a medication distribution system for HIV medications in some African locations.

A patient can come into the machine and get 1 days worth of medication at a time.

Design is so it’s not stolen from the patient.

 

[ArmPumped]

This is sort of what we saw with the Spanish flu, right? It mutated to the point of being less severe and is still around seasonally.

Bummer that we haven't progressed much in 100 years, but as long as the number of COVID admissions isn't preventing those who need high acuity care from getting it, I'd say that's a victory at this point.

 

[SVJ]

Totally cool with this viewpoint as long as we can limit healthcare for other personal choices as well. Smoke? No treatment for you. Fat? Nope, sorry... none for you. Drunk? GFY. Ride a motorcyle? Well, you should know better...
Old? well kind of a personal choice to get old, but we spend a ton of money on end of life care, maybe we should limit that too!

Background on my ugly comment.

I lost a good friend and his wife to Covid, yes they were anti-vac and died just days apart. I saw the effect on his family, no one should go through that.

My son-in-law had to sit over a day in a Texas hospital hallway on an IV with pancreatitis. Why? the rooms were full of unvaccinated with Covid.

My daughter's scan showed she needed vascular surgery at Standford. The rooms were so full no elective surgeries. Her surgery was called elective as it might be cleared with an outpatient procedure. In the outpatient procedure, the surgeon found her vein was so tight between two bones he could not put a shunt in. She is now scheduled for surgery at Standford Hospital and a room for a couple of days. Not elective anymore

So yes if you are so stupid that you think Covid is BS and Gates wants to put microchips in you. You are on your own. If the Hospital has room sure let the un-vaxed in BUT tell them if the ICU is needed for a heart attack they will be moved. Yes, cold-blooded, but maybe it will get some stupid people to get vaccinated. Could say more but don't want to get political.

 

[mikev]

Totally cool with this viewpoint as long as we can limit healthcare for other personal choices as well. Smoke? No treatment for you. Fat? Nope, sorry... none for you. Drunk? GFY. Ride a motorcyle? Well, you should know better...
Old? well kind of a personal choice to get old, but we spend a ton of money on end of life care, maybe we should limit that too!

I mean that happens already. Not to the point of denying care, but it happens.

 

[Climber]

Totally cool with this viewpoint as long as we can limit healthcare for other personal choices as well. Smoke? No treatment for you. Fat? Nope, sorry... none for you. Drunk? GFY. Ride a motorcyle? Well, you should know better...
Old? well kind of a personal choice to get old, but we spend a ton of money on end of life care, maybe we should limit that too!

How many of those 'personal choices' that you're naming have filled up hospitals and prevented people from getting necessary surgeries or treatments?

 

[bikeama]

Background on my ugly comment.

I lost a good friend and his wife to Covid, yes they were anti-vac and died just days apart. I saw the effect on his family, no one should go through that.

My son-in-law had to sit over a day in a Texas hospital hallway on an IV with pancreatitis. Why? the rooms were full of unvaccinated with Covid.

My daughter's scan showed she needed vascular surgery at Standford. The rooms were so full no elective surgeries. Her surgery was called elective as it might be cleared with an outpatient procedure. In the outpatient procedure, the surgeon found her vein was so tight between two bones he could not put a shunt in. She is now scheduled for surgery at Standford Hospital and a room for a couple of days. Not elective anymore

So yes if you are so stupid that you think Covid is BS and Gates wants to put microchips in you. You are on your own. If the Hospital has room sure let the un-vaxed in BUT tell them if the ICU is needed for a heart attack they will be moved. Yes, cold-blooded, but maybe it will get some stupid people to get vaccinated. Could say more but don't want to get political.

Totally cool with this viewpoint as long as we can limit healthcare for other personal choices as well. Smoke? No treatment for you. Fat? Nope, sorry... none for you. Drunk? GFY. Ride a motorcyle? Well, you should know better...
Old? well kind of a personal choice to get old, but we spend a ton of money on end of life care, maybe we should limit that too!

Totally cool with your viewpoint IF you can tell me which of the items you listed are causing the problems I listed. You do know what herd immunity is and why we need it? AND why those who do not get the vaccine delay herd immunity.

 

[Yakoo752]

This is sort of what we saw with the Spanish flu, right? It mutated to the point of being less severe and is still around seasonally.

Bummer that we haven't progressed much in 100 years, but as long as the number of COVID admissions isn't preventing those who need high acuity care from getting it, I'd say that's a victory at this point.

Only took 50M deaths before it mellowed out

 

[AdamFiveFive]

Makes you look back 20 years, to SARS, as the good old days. That was contained without any SARS specific medications or a vaccine. All that they could do back then was isolate the infected, and hope that they got better. If they died, they died. If they got better, they could go home.

 

[Yakoo752]

SARS wasn’t nearly as infectious.

 

[Climber]

Makes you look back 20 years, to SARS, as the good old days. That was contained without any SARS specific medications or a vaccine. All that they could do back then was isolate the infected, and hope that they got better. If they died, they died. If they got better, they could go home.

The response at the top didn't start with denial.

 

[bojangle]

Totally cool with this viewpoint as long as we can limit healthcare for other personal choices as well. Smoke? No treatment for you. Fat? Nope, sorry... none for you. Drunk? GFY. Ride a motorcyle? Well, you should know better...
Old? well kind of a personal choice to get old, but we spend a ton of money on end of life care, maybe we should limit that too!

The huge obvious difference is that none of those things are contagious, or effect others. To the point that things like smoking and drunk driving do effect others, we have created laws to help mitigating those negative effects. But they aren't contagious. And thus, none of those things overwhelm the medical system all at once. They occur at a steady enough, and predictable enough pace, that the medical system is literally built around handling the patients just fine. And forcing people to limit those activities, without a legitimate justification, really is anti-American and overstepping personal liberties.

One also must acknowledge that the SARSCOV2 pandemic is temporary. It will turn to an endemic that can be easily handled by the medical system, and no longer justify any extraordinary controls, beyond what we do for any other contagious endemic diseases we have vaccines for.

Makes you look back 20 years, to SARS, as the good old days. That was contained without any SARS specific medications or a vaccine. All that they could do back then was isolate the infected, and hope that they got better. If they died, they died. If they got better, they could go home.

And that is still how any new infectious disease is always handled, until it is shown not to work for a disease that becomes pandemic. Nothing has changed in that respect. World health authorities have long predicted, and trained for, the next flu strain that would become a pandemic. People throw around term like "only the flu" as if to suggest that the flu isn't a highly contagious deadly disease. It is, especially for a new novel flu virus. Stephen King's "The Stand", first published in 1978, involves a flu pandemic that killed off 90% of the population, for example.