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Wigwag

S

Steve Stansb

New member
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Location
Roseville
Moto(s)
2000 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic
Are wigwag lights of any type for brakes or warning signals legal for non-emergency vehicles?
 
Steve Stansb said:
So, you are saying that non emergency vehicles can have wig wag brake lights?
Click to expand...
From the DMV referenced:
(b) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with two amber lamps on the rear of the vehicle which operate simultaneously with not more than four flashes within four seconds after the accelerator pedal is in the deceleration position and which are not lighted at any other time.
Click to expand...
Simultaneously isn't wig-wag...
 
Yes I know, but, what I am looking and cannot find is a specific code or codes dealing with non emergency vehicles not being allowed to have any type of wig wag lights. Whether they are brake lights, caution lights or whatever. This company is claiming that this unit, which will wig wag brake lights 4x's in 4 seconds is legal in all 50 states. I don't think it is legal at all. The bike needs to have 2 brake lights, so it is a bug in my butt that I can't find this info. Any help would be appreciated.

Razel said:
Simultaneously isn't wig-wag...
Click to expand...
 
If you can't find a code that permits them, then they are illegal.

25250. Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted.
 
Ya know...maybe there is wiggle room because of vagueness?

(c) Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.
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I know it's borderline anal, but if that's the only section that deals with flashing brakelights, nothing says simultaneous like it did with the decelleration lights. Just that they can flash up to four times in four seconds...which could be a wig-wag.

:confused
 
In checking every code that has anything to do with vehicle lights, any lights that flash like turn signals, must do so simultaneously, fourway blinkers, simultaneouly, so on and so on. So my thoughts are since wig wags are never mentioned and simultaneous is, wig wag is out and lights must flash together. I am trying to use ordinary common sence on this.

Razel said:
Ya know...maybe there is wiggle room because of vagueness?

I know it's borderline anal, but if that's the only section that deals with flashing brakelights, nothing says simultaneous like it did with the decelleration lights. Just that they can flash up to four times in four seconds...which could be a wig-wag.

:confused
Click to expand...
 
"Which operate simultaneously with not more than four flashes within four seconds after the accelerator pedal is in the deceleration position and which are not lighted at any other time."

si·mul·ta·neous
Pronunciation: "sI-m&l-'tA-nE-&s, -ny&s also "si-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin simul at the same time + English -taneous (as in instantaneous) -- more at SAME
Date: circa 1660
1 : existing or occurring at the same time : exactly coincident
2 : satisfied by the same values of the variables <simultaneous equations>

Alternating or "Wig-Wag" lights are illegal.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25250.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25251.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252_5.htm


It's pretty clear you can't have alternating stop / brake lights.
 
Thanks guy's!! I have given up on the dude that insists that the code only mentions brake light flashing 4x's in 4 seconds and believes that there is nothing that states they have to be simultaneous, but, that that can flash independantly of each other! This guy is always right, no matter how wrong he is!! He is on a scooter site I like.
 
Hey All, try CV26100 thru 26104. These cover it pretty well. I actually got these from a fellow from Texas, whi found them in the CA code book.
 
JPM said:
"Which operate simultaneously with not more than four flashes within four seconds after the accelerator pedal is in the deceleration position and which are not lighted at any other time."

si·mul·ta·neous
Pronunciation: "sI-m&l-'tA-nE-&s, -ny&s also "si-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin simul at the same time + English -taneous (as in instantaneous) -- more at SAME
Date: circa 1660
1 : existing or occurring at the same time : exactly coincident
2 : satisfied by the same values of the variables <simultaneous equations>

Alternating or "Wig-Wag" lights are illegal.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25250.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25251.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252_5.htm


It's pretty clear you can't have alternating stop / brake lights.
Click to expand...
Except...that section with "simultaneous" only shows up in the decelleration lamp part. Nothing about "simultaneous" is mentioned about flashing brake lights in that same section, part "c". Sorry to be nit-picky, but sometimes that's the difference between paying the fine and having it dismissed.
 
I've seen wigwag brake lights before on some touring bikes for what its worth (not much).

I'm curious if there's a section of the VC that talks about Federal standards having precedence over anything contained in the VC? There may be a Federal law allowing for wigwag brake lights in which case, my understanding is, they'd be legal everywhere regardless of what the CVC has to say about it.
 
Yes. There is Federal Standard No 108 which talks about haveing lights and signals which do not confuse other people. If you go back and read the VC's on vehicle/motrocycle equipment, everything in there pertaining to lights/ brakes lights/ signal lights, refers to working simultaneous. In VC25252 it talks of brakes lights that can flash 4x's in four seconds and then stay on. I see nowhere that alternating or wigwag can even be considered. This other person is trying to conveince me that brakes lights, according to this code, can flash independent of each other. I don't buy it, but like you can't find a diffenitive "NO WIG WAG/ ALTERNATING lights!

Traq said:
I've seen wigwag brake lights before on some touring bikes for what its worth (not much).

I'm curious if there's a section of the VC that talks about Federal standards having precedence over anything contained in the VC? There may be a Federal law allowing for wigwag brake lights in which case, my understanding is, they'd be legal everywhere regardless of what the CVC has to say about it.
Click to expand...
 
Razel said:
Except...that section with "simultaneous" only shows up in the decelleration lamp part. Nothing about "simultaneous" is mentioned about flashing brake lights in that same section, part "c". Sorry to be nit-picky, but sometimes that's the difference between paying the fine and having it dismissed.
Click to expand...

Read the other links provided. Flashing, Wig-Wag, alternating lights, all the same thing as FLASHING lights. They are not allowed unless required by the code (Turn signals, hazards, ect).
 
JPM said:
Read the other links provided. Flashing, Wig-Wag, alternating lights, all the same thing as FLASHING lights. They are not allowed unless required by the code (Turn signals, hazards, ect).
Click to expand...
Ok, so maybe I'm having a(nother) senior moment...
From CVC:
25251.5 (c) Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.
Click to expand...
I believe this establishes that the brake lamps can flash, satifying the requirement of 25250.
25251 Doesn't cover flashing brake lamps, just how they're to be mounted, the color, and how they're activated.
25252 only discusses headlamps that flash.

It's in the section labled "Deceleration Warning Lights", but it's clearly referring to stop lamps ("...application of the brakes").

Which, to my way of thinking, would allow "Wig-Wag" flashing...for no more than four seconds.
 
Yeah Razel, go with that to the Judge dude; BANG (gavel), "pay the clerk on your way out"...

(Unless this is merely an academic pursuit?)
 
FMVSS 235..............Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards set the minimum. We deal with this all the time, espcially when people replace their taillamp lenses with the clear ones.

One issues are the high beams, since wig wags often incorporate the high beams. You are required to dim your lights for approaching and following other vehicles.

Wig wags or firelight/firefly type systems are also irritating in group riding situations, esp if they are in the rear.
 
Oh, wig wag involve the head lamps, so you would have to reference those sections, starting with cvc 24400. cvc 24600 and on, deal with tail lamps.
 
NorCalBusa said:
Yeah Razel, go with that to the Judge dude; BANG (gavel), "pay the clerk on your way out"...

(Unless this is merely an academic pursuit?)
Click to expand...
No, not an academic pursuit on my part. JPM (and the others) have far more interesting things to do than play academics.

Care to make a stab at why would I be in front of the judge? What would I be cited for if I have wig-wag brake lamps that A) don't flash more than four times and B)stop their flashing within four seconds?
 
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