WWYD, LEO Mindset.

[Rel]

If you were the responding LEO, what would you do:

ST. LOUIS (AP) — The family of a 3-year-old killed in a northern Missouri house fire says it is outraged after police used a stun gun on the boy's stepfather as he tried to run back in and save the child.

Riley Miller died early Oct. 31 in the Mississippi River town of Louisiana. A city police officer fired his stun gun at Ryan Miller as he tried to re-enter his burning home, which was destroyed.

Grandmother Lori Miller says she witnessed two officers use the stun gun three times, twice after Ryan Miller had been handcuffed.

Miller suffered chest burns and was later released from the city jail without being charged.

From: http://www.lawofficer.com/article/news/missouri-police-stun-stepfathe

 

[mean dad]

Officer's justification is saving Ryan's life, instead of allowing him to possibly die in the fire?

I'm not a cop in front of a burning building, but I am a father. I'd like to think I'd be helping try to save the child. I strongly doubt I would use much force at all trying to prevent him from entering the structure, although the condition of the house/size of the fire may influence that.

 

[DReg350]

Officer's justification is saving Ryan's life, instead of allowing him to possibly die in the fire?

I'm not a cop in front of a burning building, but I am a father. I'd like to think I'd be helping try to save the child. I strongly doubt I would use much force at all trying to prevent him from entering the structure, although the condition of the house/size of the fire may influence that.

Pretty much this ^^^.

Not enough facts for me to say one way or another. As a father, the story seems outrageous, but I don't know how big the fire was or how outrageous the father's behavior was. My first reaction was that tazing the guy three times while cuffed was massively excessive, but then again I imagine that I'd be like a guy on PCP trying to get back in even if cuffed. I'd need to know more.

 

[Tharkûn]

I wouldn't stop him, and if it was my kid I wouldn't want to be stopped

 

[revnort]

Officer's justification is saving Ryan's life, instead of allowing him to possibly die in the fire?

I'm not a cop in front of a burning building, but I am a father. I'd like to think I'd be helping try to save the child. I strongly doubt I would use much force at all trying to prevent him from entering the structure, although the condition of the house/size of the fire may influence that.

My understanding (from a different article) was that by this time the fire was already large enough that a fully equipped fire fighter was trying to enter and could not because of the flames. In that case wouldn't it be just allowing the guy to kill himself?

This is a really tough one...

 

[revnort]

Yep, this is closer to the report I saw.

State Fire Marshal Investigator Scott Stoneberger said that a firefighter in full gear attempted to enter the home but the flames were too hot. Firefighters discovered Riley near the doorway to the bedroom from the front living room.

However in this report it seems to say that they waited for the fire department. If that is the case and they were waiting and tasing the dude, fuck that. Let him try if the police wont.

http://www.connecttristates.com/news/story.aspx?id=966109#.Unvjd3BJMuc

 

[Removed 4]

If he were allowed to re-enter the building, those managing the scene could be held liable for his death.
Without being there, I cannot say whether the tazer was necessary or not.

 

[Entoptic]

Officer's justification is saving Ryan's life, instead of allowing him to possibly die in the fire?

I'm not a cop in front of a burning building, but I am a father. I'd like to think I'd be helping try to save the child. I strongly doubt I would use much force at all trying to prevent him from entering the structure, although the condition of the house/size of the fire may influence that.

+1

I wouldn't stop him, and if it was my kid I wouldn't want to be stopped

further +1

If he were allowed to re-enter the building, those managing the scene could be held liable for his death.
Without being there, I cannot say whether the tazer was necessary or not.

This mindset reminds me of the firefighters that watched the person drown in Alameda because they were told not to assist. Boogles my mind that someone could live with that weight on their shoulders.

 

[byke]

People act like dying is just the worst thing ever no matter the situation. There's nothing wrong with dying while trying to save your child, no matter how fruitless it may be.

By the way, Rel, this would make a fun WWYD series for situations you guys encounter.

 

[tuxumino]

wouldn't stop him, probably try to help him but I was a wildland fire fighter for 6 seasons, so I'm kinda spring loaded in that position.

 

[corndog67]

Some people seem a little too quick on the Taser. I'd be pretty fuckin' pissed off if someone made me let my kid, or wife, or hell, even my dogs, die in a fire. There's a lot worse things than dying while trying to save your family.

 

[Removed 4]

This mindset reminds me of the firefighters that watched the person drown in Alameda because they were told not to assist. Boogles my mind that someone could live with that weight on their shoulders.

Not to say the fire fighters should do nothing as well. They are trained and equipped to act and SHOULD act.

 

[SFSV650]

Right or wrong, I can absolutely see how a LEO might think that on balance they were doing more to help than to harm.

It's a tough call to second guess from the comfort of home.

 

[Abyss]

Police allow stepfather to enter home, he gets burned, sues police department for not preventing him. :|

It's fucked that we have to be so protective of liability.

 

[oorahduc]

"to help" .... being forcing the father to live with the fact he was forcefully prevented from even attempting to save his son?

Seems to me more harm. I wouldn't be able to live with myself....nor whoever stopped me for that matter. if you get my drift.


Posted from Bayarearidersforum.com App for Android

 

[CHUM]

hard to say - not enough facts.

If the house fire looked like this I would have let him go

If the house fire looked like this I too would have stunned him if he was hell bent on dying.

* Please know that I am not a FF, nor do I have any real knowledge of the inherent dangers of house fires...and it sounded like a judgment call on the LEO's part...

 

[Charles R]

It's easy to say it's more noble to die while trying to save your kid.... But what about those you've left behind? They now have to mourn the loss of two family members. Not to mention the loss of the probable breadwinner of the family.

The father was target fixated. And every one of us riders knows exactly how disastrous that can be.
If I thought there was the slightest chance of success, I'd be joining the guy with a garden house in tow... But if I couldn't see the possibility of both making it out alive? Yeah, I'd put him down. And I would live with it knowing the rest of the family still had a father.

 

[m_asim]

Both the answers are right and both of them are wrong. There are no winners here. Just a sad situation where a child died.

 

[Abyss]

I can imagine that, as a cop, if you let a guy go charging into a fire and he died, not only would the department have a lawsuit on its hands, but you (personally) would suffer disciplinary action without a doubt. I wouldn't let him in either.

 

[SteelerFanatic]

Without reading the article, my initial thoughts are:

1- Why wasn't he trying to save the kid before the cops got there
2- Why wasn't he smart enough to go around the back door. Cops don't watch all entrances / exits
3- Who doesn't know where their 3 yr old is at all times? Especially during an evacuation.


Bottom line, I would let the dude go in. Give him a wet blanket and tell him to run like the wind.