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Yay datacenters...driving up electricity costs

PaulR said:
Data Center ≠ Crypto Mine

Projects like this often get labeled as “data centers”, but many are actually crypto mines. Big difference.

A real data center runs cloud services and provides real jobs.
A crypto mine is just racks of loud machines running nonstop to generate cryptocurrency for one company.

Crypto mines bring heavy noise, huge power draw, and almost no community benefit — and they can seriously impact rural quality of life in places like La Pine.
My understanding what is being planned or proposed for Lapine is a crypto mine not a data center.
Lapine is a nice place doesn’t deserve this.

PaulR
Click to expand...
I haven't dug into it enough to know exactly what is proposed, but I am against it. La Pine is not an economic powerhouse, and as such is prone to wanting the increased revenue from permitting, and the potential job growth. Unfortunately most of these data centers only employ a handful of people at best, and in many cases get preferrential treatment on permitting, which is a lose/lose for the city. But more importantly, the water issue and electricity costs will have a real, negative impact on the residents there. As it stands, much of La Pine is low income, and a lot of the old wells are shallow. Many long time residents cannot afford to drill a new well, and there are already significant water issues. Those issues have become a hot button topic for the current county commissioner's election, with all sorts of political battles taking place and pointing of fingers.

In Prineville, about 30 minutes from Bend in Crook County, there are two very large data centers for Facebook and Amazon. The small town of Prineville was lured in with the promise of jobs and economic benefit, which never materialized in the ways promised. Unfortunately, there is very little to be done about it, especially if the politicians making the decisions are on board. I sincerly hope the citizens of La Pine and the surrounding areas (me!) are able to block this. But it is only a matter of time before there is another attempt. And typically, the developers will learn from a denial, sweeten the deal, and grease the correct palms to eventually get what they want.
 
Reference:
tesla giga factory jobs + economic boost for Buffalo in exchange for huge subsidies, expedited permitting, etc (cliff notes: Nelson's --> haha)
 
I’m retired from the HVAC industry and find a lot of misrepresentations in this thread regarding water usage. Most of the new centers have closed loop systems now not evaporative. FYI if you use google or Facebook you are a hypocrite. Face book and googles data centers are evaporative and use 1-4 million gallons a day. How about you don’t use those platforms as a protest.
Here is a substack post about the sensational claims.

Sensational claims (e.g., “draining towns dry”) ignore that data centers are often a small % of total regional water use nationally (<1% in the U.S.), and alternatives like golf courses or lawns use far more. Many operators report, innovate, and use non-potable sources. Not all facilities are equal—air-cooled or advanced ones use little. Local impacts vary hugely by design and sourcing. jeibros.substack.com
 
Current dc’s you are correct. This thread is talking about new dc’s being built and how much they use. That’s why I referenced fb and google.

Closed-loop systems (recirculating fluid in sealed loops, often with dry coolers/fluid coolers or direct-to-chip liquid cooling, minimal/no evaporation) are less common overall but expanding rapidly for AI workloads. They reduce water use by ~70–90%+ vs. traditional evaporative (sometimes near-zero ongoing consumption after initial fill). Examples: Oracle’s AI data centers, Microsoft’s newer designs, Vantage’s closed-loop sites.
Source, oracle.com blog.vantage-dc.com
Then there are some that don’t use any water but refrigeration for cooling. Only ~10–25% are fully water-free (e.g., pure air/dry or refrigerant-based).
May only be 10-25% so far but that’s a good start.
 
littlebeast said:
"A picture is worth a thousand words" is an adage in multiple languages meaning that complex and sometimes multiple ideas[1] can be conveyed by a single still image, which conveys its meaning or essence more effectively than a mere verbal description. - from wiki

not a new concept - originated in 1911. efficiency. we’re just getting better at it. gotta love it.
Click to expand...


There is some truth in that statement. But it also ignores the fact that pictures are open to far more different interpretations than words are. If you don’t mind being misinterpreted or misunderstood or accused of vague and often misleading communication, by all means, use emojis. But if you want to be clearly understood, do not use emojis.
 
Electricity (driven heavily by cooling needs) dwarfs coolant costs for most operators. Liquid/closed-loop shifts expenses toward higher upfront CapEx (fluids, plumbing) but lower ongoing energy (and sometimes water) OpEx. Savings can pay back in 1–few years via reduced power bills, especially at high densities/AI loads. parkplacetechnologies.com

For context, hyperscalers prioritize cheap power locations and efficiency tech partly because grid electricity is the volatile, high-impact variable—coolants are more controllable and often secondary. Local energy price hikes remain a real concern for communities, as DC-driven demand strains infrastructure. Exact numbers depend heavily on location, climate, and design.
This is why there is talk about restarting shuttered nuclear plants.
Electricity cost and generation are the real conversation and concern. But regardless of ai and data centers, electricity costs have skyrocketed in the last 10 years. There are no data centers where I live and I get charged 55 cents per kWh sometimes. When I lived in Oakland the highest I ever got was 35 cents per kWh when mining BTC.
 
That's all well and good unless your prices spike or you lose access to electricity entirely.
 
The reading I've done indicates closed-loop systems increase electric demands up to 40%, not lessen.

Also, they don't fill it once and leave it forever. They'll need to periodically dispose of the toxic sludge full of various chemicals needed to keep their system clean and operational.
Just like your coolant needs replacing, theirs will too.
 
If by coolant you mean a closed loop water system, yes there will be a small amount added after service but not much. If by coolant you mean mechanical coolant, you will never have to replace the refrigerant. Unless the system has a leak. Which it never should.
Open loop evaporative cooling is where the waste happens. Eventually everything will be closed loop. Companies like fb and google, that have been around for decades, is where the focus should be to make their systems better.
 
panthera said:
I’m retired from the HVAC industry and find a lot of misrepresentations in this thread regarding water usage. Most of the new centers have closed loop systems now not evaporative. FYI if you use google or Facebook you are a hypocrite. Face book and googles data centers are evaporative and use 1-4 million gallons a day. How about you don’t use those platforms as a protest.
Here is a substack post about the sensational claims.

Sensational claims (e.g., “draining towns dry”) ignore that data centers are often a small % of total regional water use nationally (<1% in the U.S.), and alternatives like golf courses or lawns use far more. Many operators report, innovate, and use non-potable sources. Not all facilities are equal—air-cooled or advanced ones use little. Local impacts vary hugely by design and sourcing. jeibros.substack.com
Click to expand...
Clap‑Back: “Closed Loop Isn’t a Free Pass — And Crypto Mines Aren’t Data Centers.”

Respectfully, the HVAC background doesn’t change the core issue:

“Closed loop” doesn’t mean “no water impact.”

Industrial closed‑loop systems still need makeup water, blow‑down, chemical treatment, and periodic refill. That’s just reality.

And here’s the part everyone keeps glossing over:

Data centers and crypto mines are NOT the same thing.

A real data center:
• hosts cloud services
• serves millions of users
• provides real jobs
• supports businesses and consumers

A crypto mine:
• serves one private operator
• produces no public service
• creates almost no employment
• runs ASICs 24/7 purely to mint digital coins

So comparing La Pine’s proposal to Google or Facebook is a dodge.

Those companies at least provide services the public actually uses.
And let’s be honest
Dragging in “you’re a hypocrite if you use Google” is just a distraction from the real concern:

La Pine’s aquifer is stressed, and crypto mining brings no community benefit to justify the risk.

Bigger issue:

Crypto mines dump massive electrical load onto rural grids.

When utilities expand infrastructure to handle that load, ratepayers — regular people — end up subsidizing it.

Higher bills so a private crypto operator can print money?

Yeah, that feels like a crime against the community.

Bottom line:

Closed loop reduces water use, but it doesn’t erase impact.

And calling a crypto mine a “data center” is marketing spin — not truth.

La Pine deserves transparency, not buzzwords and false equivalencies.

PaulR
 
apropos of nothing but my 'get off my lawn you stupid kids' moment re: language is that literally will now sometimes but not always mean the opposite of literally

Screenshot 2026-05-19 at 11-43-58 Inflammable means flammable What a country! r_TheSimpsons.png
 
Who’s gonna complain about data centres using a little extra electricity and water when rockin 30 day tai chi abs.
 
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