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Zero Motorcycles

Meter Man said:
I totally get that. However I've been seeing the Odd 2012ish Zero for about 5-6K for the 9.4 model.

For example:

http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/5237025064.html


Winter is coming and I have too many bikes, otherwise I'd snap it up.
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$20K for a new Victory Impulse TT. They were called Brammo until Brammo was bought and I think Victory raised the price. :thumbdown

A Zero SR new is $16K.
 
Killroy1999 said:
$20K for a new Victory Impulse TT. They were called Brammo until Brammo was bought and I think Victory raised the price. :thumbdown

A Zero SR new is $16K.
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I get that. What I am saying is that one can find a used model at 1/2-1/3 or a new priced one. If one really wants to dip their feet in the electric motorcycle well they could do it for the price of a Ninja 300.
 
Questions for those that are knowledgeable:

What's the total cost of ownership after 2-3 years of an electric bike vs gas?
I'm going to assume it's still a quite a bit cheaper for a gas, but manufactures close to being equal at some long term date? 5+ years?
How does insurance stack up on electric bikes?
 
Hybridchemistry said:
Questions for those that are knowledgeable:

What's the total cost of ownership after 2-3 years of an electric bike vs gas?
I'm going to assume it's still a quite a bit cheaper for a gas, but manufactures close to being equal at some long term date? 5+ years?
How does insurance stack up on electric bikes?
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Depends on a few factors. The biggest are how much you ride and how you price maintenance costs. The best comparison scenario is for someone who rides 100 miles a day and takes their bike to the dealer for all maintenance. Bike pays for itself in 3 years or so.

Insurance companies haven't all figured out how to classify electric bikes yet. I've heard stories about agents insisting to know the cc of the engine and people getting cheap rates as an under 50 cc bike. I think more people are getting comparable rates to gas bikes, though.
 
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scotinexcile said:
I would be interested to find out how your friend manages to pay just $79 per month on a lease :teeth
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Put down $3400, get $2500 back from CARB, use the $7500 tax credit from Uncle Sam to subvent the cap cost. $900 down and $79 plus sales tax on $79. Per the Chevy.com payment calculator.

We did it with our Fiat 500e. $2200 down and a little negotiating got the payments to $159 with tax. That's a $34,000 car.
 
Hybridchemistry said:
Questions for those that are knowledgeable:

What's the total cost of ownership after 2-3 years of an electric bike vs gas?
I'm going to assume it's still a quite a bit cheaper for a gas, but manufactures close to being equal at some long term date? 5+ years?
How does insurance stack up on electric bikes?
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My electricity is free... That's a bit of a factor.
 
louemc said:
My electricity is free... That's a bit of a factor.
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Luckkkyyyy. I have a friend who was leasing a Volt, got a great deal on monthly payments, and could charge it at work at Yahoo for free. Essentially no cost for his weekday commute and minimal weekend charging. I assume he's out of lease by now, probably looking at something with newer technology.

There's a couple of used Zeros on CL for <5k$ right now, makes me interested, but I don't have a way to charge it at work, and I'd have to hack something up in the garage at the GF's.


Edit:
Looking at Google maps, I'd have to be able to do 60 miles comfortably on a single charge. Plus two chargers at least :\
 
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Hybridchemistry said:
Questions for those that are knowledgeable:

What's the total cost of ownership after 2-3 years of an electric bike vs gas?
I'm going to assume it's still a quite a bit cheaper for a gas, but manufactures close to being equal at some long term date? 5+ years?
How does insurance stack up on electric bikes?
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My Zero is 2 over years old. I already mentioned mileage and maintenance in an earlier reply. It's nothing compared to my BMW. I get about 8-10 miles (mostly highway) per kWh of electricity. So plug in your cost per kWh. I have solar so, so I already paid for all my electricity up front. If you commute to work, maybe your office can cut the cost even further, but you're looking at cents per day. For insurance, I pay almost $40 per month through Progressive. This includes uninsured/underinsured coverage.

Oh yes, there are tax incentives. Not sure if they've expired. There is an eventual break-even point, but try not to argue economics when it comes to electric vs ICE. Just test ride one and tell me there isn't any value in having instant response and torque from something that has a full tank every single morning and doesn't require warming up and waking up the neighbors.
 
^^^^ :thumbup , I power my home with Solar, charging another battery, is a zero cost.

All my power tools are high tech battery powered, and the batteries are either 40 volt or 80 volt.

The "tools" include chain saw, Pole saw, weed eater, lawn mower as well as the usual drills and skill saw and work lights.
 
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Motorcycle USA posted my review of the Zero DS, if you're interested:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2015/10/article/2015-zero-ds-electric-review/
2015-Zero-DS-Electric-Review-7-1024x682.jpg
 
Nice review. I don't agree with the ball and chain comment regarding transmissions, though. Getting to shift gears makes everything more fun. Plus, I don't want to give up the ICE noise for the whir of an electric motor.
 
I liked the review. I still feel like the issue with these bikes is the price. I'm not saying that 1/4th the cost of ICE is necessary, but a versys starts at 8 grand, BMW's F700 at 10. I feel like at around 8.5-9 for the smaller battery version and 10-10.5 for the larger one is the price point that I would seriously consider these.
 
Cookie Monster said:
Nice review. I don't agree with the ball and chain comment regarding transmissions, though. Getting to shift gears makes everything more fun. Plus, I don't want to give up the ICE noise for the whir of an electric motor.
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Shifting if fun to master. Most people don't master it.

Getting rid of the clutch is nice.
 
ScarySpikes said:
I liked the review. I still feel like the issue with these bikes is the price. I'm not saying that 1/4th the cost of ICE is necessary, but a versys starts at 8 grand, BMW's F700 at 10. I feel like at around 8.5-9 for the smaller battery version and 10-10.5 for the larger one is the price point that I would seriously consider these.
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The price is a 2-fold problem. Volume and batteries.

Zero just does not have the volume of Honda.

Batteries are still pricey as we know, but going down. Once the Tesla Gigafactory is "fully operational" then there will be a step change in battery cost. Tesla, we are counting on you.
 
Cookie Monster said:
Nice review. I don't agree with the ball and chain comment regarding transmissions, though. Getting to shift gears makes everything more fun. Plus, I don't want to give up the ICE noise for the whir of an electric motor.
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Ride an electric bike and you may change your mind.

After a half million miles of motorcycle clutch and shifting "fun," I'm ready to chill out with a single-gear motorcycle.

ScarySpikes said:
I liked the review. I still feel like the issue with these bikes is the price. I'm not saying that 1/4th the cost of ICE is necessary, but a versys starts at 8 grand, BMW's F700 at 10. I feel like at around 8.5-9 for the smaller battery version and 10-10.5 for the larger one is the price point that I would seriously consider these.
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I agree. That's where Zero's real strength is. The company has figured out how to build a $12,000 motorcycle with a $9,000 battery in small numbers in the USA. When batteries get below $400 per kWh, they could sell the bikes at $8,000 and clean up.

Edit: Tesla expects battery cost to dip to $100 per kWh by 2020. Even if they're off by $200 it'll be huge. Current cost is about $700 or more.
 
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dont touch anything that is older than a 2013.

put 11k on my Zero DS
2 problems under warranty.
excellent commuter.

gas station? whats a gas station?
 
I've got 28K miles on my Empulse and, except for early warranty work (redesigned flimsy taillight section and a bad transmission seal), I've had no problems of an EV nature. I recently had to replace the steering head bearings after an infamous SF pothole brinelled them.

I'm on Time-of-Use rates with PGE and charge my bike with a timer while I sleep at 10 cents per kWh. Cost works out to roughly 1 cent per mile. So my fuel cost for 28,000 miles over two years is $280, or about $12 per month, or half a tank of gas in my wife's Prius. I don't at all miss dealing with plugs, valve adjustments, filters etc.

Insurance is about the same as my last gasser.

Yes, it has a tranny, but I don't use the clutch for upshifts, leave it in 2nd gear around down, and don't use the clutch for stopping and starting (the motor doesn't turn at standstill). So my 71-year-old clutch hand is happy.

Can't imagine a better commuter, unless it were a Zero, but then I LOVE the Brembo brakes, super tight frame with Street Triple geometry, and solid suspension of the Empulse.
 
LectricBill said:
I've got 28K miles on my Empulse and, except for early warranty work (redesigned flimsy taillight section and a bad transmission seal), I've had no problems of an EV nature. I recently had to replace the steering head bearings after an infamous SF pothole brinelled them.

I'm on Time-of-Use rates with PGE and charge my bike with a timer while I sleep at 10 cents per kWh. Cost works out to roughly 1 cent per mile. So my fuel cost for 28,000 miles over two years is $280, or about $12 per month, or half a tank of gas in my wife's Prius. I don't at all miss dealing with plugs, valve adjustments, filters etc.

Insurance is about the same as my last gasser.

Yes, it has a tranny, but I don't use the clutch for upshifts, leave it in 2nd gear around down, and don't use the clutch for stopping and starting (the motor doesn't turn at standstill). So my 71-year-old clutch hand is happy.

Can't imagine a better commuter, unless it were a Zero, but then I LOVE the Brembo brakes, super tight frame with Street Triple geometry, and solid suspension of the Empulse.
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Clutch-less up shifts are easy.

Clutch-less down shifts are a little harder. I did not do it regularly.
 
Gabe said:
Edit: Tesla expects battery cost to dip to $100 per kWh by 2020. Even if they're off by $200 it'll be huge. Current cost is about $700 or more.
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I'm curious what the energy density gains will look like when that happens. Zero is using 12.5 kWh right now for their bigger batteries. If they could get to 20-25 without a huge weight gain and with a price point of maybe 5000+battery cost, which if Tesla is close to right would still leave it under 10 grand, there wouldn't be many things that could challenge that as an everyday commuter. Especially since Tesla is also putting so much money towards expanding the charging station grids.
 
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