Insurance fiasco

[synfinatic]

This is an honest question:

Was there an official AFM announcement to all members (vendors and racers, not just those at buttonwillow)? I've looked on the AFM site and can't find any mention of it other then the thread started by Neil. Maybe there was an email which went out and I didn't it get since my application was just processed? Or was there an announcement at the riders meeting? Or did most people hear about it through the grapevine/BARF?

If there was no official announcement, then it shouldn't surprise anyone that the discussion ended up on BARF. If there was an official announcement, did it indicate a way to send your feedback to the board?

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[Georgie]

A little over a week out from BW an email went out to all vendors from the newly appointed Vice Prez Dave Worthington.

 

[Holeshot]

Patrick, did you not read Eric Snyder's comments? He goes to the meetings and relayed some of the data. On THIS issue, if you want me to give you fact, you need to give me a way to contact you. I don't need to experiment what conjecture will take place when a board member puts facts out to the general public. On THIS issue, I'm not doing to do that.

How many of those in this thread, before I suggested it, contacted an AFM board member?

 

[#1Freak]

i have had disscusions with a board memeber

and berto, i do respect your time, so thus far i have had yet to talk to you about this. but i may in the future.

i really do thank you for your time and efforts, and this thread proves the point that your job is a thankless job...

B

 

[synfinatic]

A little over a week out from BW an email went out to all vendors from the newly appointed Vice Prez Dave Worthington.

That would be a "no" then.

Berto, thanks for the email. I think it confirms what I suspected- that the board made a reasonable decision; I may not completely agree with it, but I can see how good people trying to act in the best interest of the AFM came to it.

Where I think the board erred is how the information was disseminated. Since the board didn't tell the racers what was going on, the first we heard about it was the vendors complaining on BARF/etc or wondering why Alex is selling Bridgestones at BW. And of course many racers are friends with the vendors and have come to depend on them so we tend to want to protect them/see their side, especially when lacking any real information from the board.

Once that happened the rumor mill started up, fingers were pointed in various directions, people got hot under the collar and things went down hill. To make matters worse, since there was no public announcement and questions went unanswered in the AFM forum, the board was in a poor position to do damage control. I know you want people to contact you directly, but that's not a scalable solution.

Anyways, consider this a request for the board to work on:
1) A solution so that any interested AFM member can listen/participate in the board meetings in real time. Conference call, WebEx, whatever. Free is great, but I'll gladly pay a reasonable access fee to participate without having to drive to the east bay.

2) The board to create a private online forum for AFM members to share and discuss ideas, concerns and issues with board members. Basically take these hot button conversations in RC and move them to an OFFICIAL place where you, Alex and any other interested board member can be more open about things. The key thing here is that board members will need to stop discussing AFM issues here so that the racers move over too. That's why this thread is 5x bigger then the one on the AFM site- not because a bunch of non-AFM members are posting.

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[Holeshot]

i have had disscusions with a board memeber

and berto, i do respect your time, so thus far i have had yet to talk to you about this. but i may in the future.

i really do thank you for your time and efforts, and this thread proves the point that your job is a thankless job...

B

Shit Brian, I'm just glad we're alive after that black flag shit at the top of T9!

Aaron, so noted. Thanks for taking the time to read the novella...

 

[TWF]

2) The board to create a private online forum for AFM members to share and discuss ideas, concerns and issues with board members. Basically take these hot button conversations in RC and move them to an OFFICIAL place where you, Alex and any other interested board member can be more open about things. The key thing here is that board members will need to stop discussing AFM issues here so that the racers move over too. That's why this thread is 5x bigger then the one on the AFM site- not because a bunch of non-AFM members are posting.

Thanks,
Aaron

you can create 10 of those special forums and nothing will change, never has. place already exists, go count how many posts from board members are there. you know why? nobody is in charge of anything but all are in charge of everything.

 

[Georgie]

If some geniuses have better ideas on how to insure the AFM and get the vendors covered, I am sure the board and Shawn would be happy to hear from you.

Eric, I actually do have several ideas here and am not only willing to discuss them directly with interested vendors, but will be submitting them to the board meeting agenda for discussion and possible implementation.

At this point we (Axial Video Systems) are willing to work with any vendors who are unable to handle the insurance requirements and are interested in possible solutions/workarounds to the AFM's new insurance requirements.

We are also interested in discussing ramifications and any solutions others may have to this situation directly with other AFM vendors.

We have insurance, but feel as though all AFM vendors are in this together and that detaching oneself from this situation based on being covered already is not good for anyone in the long run.

Even if as a vendor you are covered already, it is in everyones best interest to act as a single vendor entity rather than as individual vendors each fending for themselves.

Maybe it is time for an AFM Vendor Association to be formed.

Contact us directly at: info@axialvideo.com

 

[675 Trip]

Geoffrey,

Thanks for stepping up on this in such a big way. I was really expecting that we would have at least one insurance professional/expert that knew what was going on to give everyone guidance, but without that, it is great for someone with your experience to step into the breach.

Has anyone seen the actual contract yet? It would be great for Geoffrey and others to know exactly what they are dealing with instead of educated guesses.

I know at the last board meeting, they had to vote to comply with the language of the policy blindly because no one had actually seen it.

 

[Georgie]

Geoffrey,

Thanks for stepping up on this in such a big way. I was really expecting that we would have at least one insurance professional/expert that knew what was going on to give everyone guidance, but without that, it is great for someone with your experience to step into the breach.

Has anyone seen the actual contract yet? It would be great for Geoffrey and others to know exactly what they are dealing with instead of educated guesses.

I know at the last board meeting, they had to vote to comply with the language of the policy blindly because no one had actually seen it.

All for one, one for all. Eric

That is a pretty strange situation to have to vote on something in the blind!

I will ask Scott if this info is available when I submit my items to him for the board agenda.

 

[Hwy1&17]

thread jack

I had an awesome day at work today, first day back working in the woods. Running the chain saw, the skidder, getting the mill up and running and cutting some lumber. The smell of fresh cut pine logs and a nice warm breeze blowing through the trees. Then I come home and read this shit and start thinking what in the fuck has happened to this country??? I guess I'd better show up at the next round with absolutely every thing I need and be prepared to drop a race or two!

Later, Pat
AFM #31

...but more importantly, how's the riding up there?

Dude check your PM's, emails, voice mails, something!



****end hijack****

 

[Holeshot]

Shawn is answering questions on the AFM forum on the issue

http://www.afmracing.org/webforums/viewtopic.php?t=4108

 

[com3]

We are lucky to have Racer Ready Motorsports, Sport Tire Services, Pirelli Tires, GP Frame and Wheel and the other great vendors that come to support all AFM riders with the goods and services we all need to perform at the highest and safest level we can. To gouge these vendors the way the AFM board has chosen to do is just unbeleivable. Do the right thing. Reverse the AFM Gouge Fund so these vendors can continue to help each of us enjoy the sport we love so much. C'mon President Reilly. Make it right !

+1. i don't make money at AFM...i'm there cause i love being there... but i can't afford to pay to be there... these are already tough times. hell, i don't even actually vend anything at the track!

 

[com3]

What if they sell you the wrong brake lever? It fits and works (for now) but it doesnt actually work properly and you dont realize that it is chafing at something in the master cylinder until you are screaming into turn one and it lets go and you take out 5 other riders because the part caused a failure becuase it was used on a bike that it shouldnt have been on... Wouldnt it be good for a vendor to have insurance in such a case?

OR someone crashes and claims that the life-threatening injuries they received were due to the twiddling changes on the shock or fork made by the suspension person who must have made the wrong change.

No these things arent common apprently (thankfully), but it would suck for a given vendor to be accused of such in either case, and they and the AFM to be dragged through the legal mud without proper insurance coverage and representation.

I dont like this insurance situation either, and am hopeful that there will be timely and positive outcome for us all. I'd certainly prefer to have our vendors in attendance.

or....they were flying into turn one and saw a photog on the side of the track, behind a K-wall and they crashed...

 

[com3]

PAt, I'll give ya whatever you need man, but not on BARF. It has no business on the internet. If you want my number, shoot me a PM...or I'll email you if you PM me.

is it sekrit information or something that you're speaking of? or is it public info that may spawn controversy? :|

 

[com3]

...
the problem with BARF is it's an open forum. Anyone can read it and anyone can comment. That is where the train wreck begins. ...

so far, i've read 123 posts, and i think all of em were from either AFM members or people like me who aren't members, but work close with the AFM...

 

[27007RT]

There has been alot of debate behind this issue and I'm saddened to see that a discussion of rumors on BARF is what it takes to facilitate information. I don't see the benefit of bringing in USGPRU riders if it means the trackside vendors have to pay additional money to be able to sell us the items we need to race. I don't believe that if YOU buy a brake lever from whomever and YOU put it on your bike and YOU crash because YOU didn't check the operation of the equipment, that the seller is responsible for the issue. I think it is rediculous to make a trackside vendor come out of pocket for insurance when a guy could be salvage parts off Ebay - they don't have insurance at all. Perhaps that should be the next question at tech: I need to see sales reciepts and proof of insurance for each and every part you have added to your motorcycle..... including the insurance for the air compressor you used to fill your tires and the insurance for the tire pressure gauge you used this morning to confirm air pressure. I understand we live in a litigious society but at some point we've got to pull the BS card. I don't see why more options weren't given to the membership - I'd rather pay an additional unnecessary fee to protect our vendors with a beefier insurance policy rather than forcing a guy out of business. Dave Moss worked for free at the last races - he helps us all both in terms of time and safety and he took it in the shorts. I'm disappointed with the content of the rumors which still haven't been addressed - and the closed door dealings haven't done the membership any good at all. Thank you to the members and vendors including Ken of Race Ready Motorsports to step up and ask the questions, ask about the rumors and start getting some answers.

 

[27007RT]

Then don't.



I'm pulling the BS card on that one.

First, it's a BORD, where the president only has one vote.
Next, Shawn has way too much integrity to pull a stunt like that.

Isn't speculation what happens when nobody's got the facts?

 

[bos]

"I don't see the benefit of bringing in USGPRU riders if it means the trackside vendors have to pay additional money to be able to sell us the items we need to race."

+1

I'm not quit sure where the value added is here for for me either. I don't quite understand how racing against an 11 year old & having Insurance rates which drive off potential vendors is an added value.

 

[duh_ave]

First thought: Z2 hosted a race last year; I dont recall what it was exactly, but I'm recalling something about USGPRU (I may be totally wrong here). If so, how was vendor insurance for that handled? It seems there should be some familiarity in this area if it was USGPRU.

Second thought on this, is that if T-hill was requiring this higher insurance, and we dont race there for another two months, what was the hurry to get the new policy? Was the previous policy expired or???