Classifieds and the old days

[byke]

Moderation will always be inconsistent. I can invent a large number of rules to fit the majority of situations...

Dude, don't bother. He's messing with you, "oh shucks if we only had the right plan for this or that...", it's not being honest. They can't be bothered to add the word "objectify" to the TOS, which they take action on all the time...well...the one with a personal agenda does anyway (*cough*consistency ironyyyyy*cough*). We've been through this many times and have made plenty of valid suggestions and it has been made very clear that there are zero intentions to make any changes to the TOS, no matter how glaring the flaws may be. When you look at the TOS, just pretend it says, "watch. adapt. keep it to yourself...or leave", because that's mostly how it's implemented.

Luv y'aaaaall!!!

 

[Enchanter]

^ perfect example of the cries of inconsistency.

 

[planegray]

I guess what I don't understand is this:

The rules don't need to be biased towards anyone to stop dog-piles and other e-bullshit. I propose that change to the rules because the existing rules allow for all kinds of crappy behavior from sellers while not allowing buyers or the community to really address that behavior except in a very limited scope.

Personal vendettas usually aren't executed with respect and courtesy, so nothing will change under the new rules, and if that personal vendetta is because of a negative experience, well, it might be worthwhile for other potential buyers to know that that is who they're dealing with.

People dogpiling tends to be posts of little substance, so again - that's why those rules are in place. In my ideal world, classifieds would have an ad, and then a couple of detailed posts about potential issues with the bike, history, or any known details from the community, and the seller could address each of those things - basically, enough accountability that someone is unlikely to post up something misleading, knowing that they're not only going to be called on it, but also held accountable.

As it is, there's zero accountability on the seller side, because even if you provide good information countering the seller's misinformation, you're probably going to get your post deleted. Yet the same is not true of the seller, who can post whatever misinformation they like and it will basically never be removed or edited.

In my mind, the buyer and the sellers are both members of the same community and should be held to the same standards - either by the mods or by the membership. God knows I stand on both sides of that fence regularly, and god knows people have taken advantage of that disconnect in the past with little to no repercussions.

I can see how it looks like nothing has changed, from your side of the fence. In fact there have been a few incidents in classified that got a LOT of mod attention and resulted in changes in moderation.

Z3N, and byke, I respectfully request that you guys bring it back to 5ish (instead of ... like... 13 !! ) with your expectations of how much and how fast we react to your suggestions.

In my opinion, this expectation of instant response was one of the things that was a problem with the KTM690 ad. Let me ask you; how well do YOU react when someone, you don't know or have any reason to trust, DEMANDS that you do something RIGHT NOW ?? hmmmm ?

 

[byke]

13? I think you mean 11.

I'm not quite picking up on that last paragraph, but I'd think that the answer involves something from both the seller and the people who posted in the thread. If mods are willing to delete posts and are generally in favor of contributing vendors, why not ask the seller if it's cool if you edit their erroneous ad? It seems like there's this scared approach with vendors, like they're so emotional that they can't handle working with mods to correct a problem (even though it did kind of appear that way judging by their weird reaction). Anyway, point being, I think the "hey bro..." approach is generally more helpful than whatever is happening behind the scenes. Also, my apologies to you if it looks like I'm griping your way, because I'm most definitely not, I've seen nothing but mellow and fair from yourself.

 

[planegray]

13? I think you mean 11.

I'm not quite picking up on that last paragraph, but I'd think that the answer involves something from both the seller and the people who posted in the thread. If mods are willing to delete posts and are generally in favor of contributing vendors, why not ask the seller if it's cool if you edit their erroneous ad? It seems like there's this scared approach with vendors, like they're so emotional that they can't handle working with mods to correct a problem (even though it did kind of appear that way judging by their weird reaction). Anyway, point being, I think the "hey bro..." approach is generally more helpful than whatever is happening behind the scenes. Also, my apologies to you if it looks like I'm griping your way, because I'm most definitely not, I've seen nothing but mellow and fair from yourself.

No worries, you guys both have some good points, and we appreciate you caring enough to share... it's gonna have to percolate a little now

 

[Enchanter]

13? I think you mean 11.

I'm not quite picking up on that last paragraph, but I'd think that the answer involves something from both the seller and the people who posted in the thread. If mods are willing to delete posts and are generally in favor of contributing vendors, why not ask the seller if it's cool if you edit their erroneous ad? It seems like there's this scared approach with vendors, like they're so emotional that they can't handle working with mods to correct a problem (even though it did kind of appear that way judging by their weird reaction). Anyway, point being, I think the "hey bro..." approach is generally more helpful than whatever is happening behind the scenes. Also, my apologies to you if it looks like I'm griping your way, because I'm most definitely not, I've seen nothing but mellow and fair from yourself.

Would you mind pointing out the other instances of this occurring in the Classified Forum (favoring a vendor)? Do we only remove posts from Sponsor posts, or do we do it with non-sponsors too? Or is this a sample size of 1?

 

[phocup]

As a member who's both bought and sold bikes on this site and frequently browse BaRF for the next toy, THANK YOU to you Z3n for trying to bring for clarity and ACCOUNTIBILITY to ads on this site. Even if it doesn't change anything, I appreciate the effort as I often get annoyed at seeing the ludicrous asking prices too. Just today I pm'ed a member re: his bike and included a recently sold bike from cycletrader for comparison.

Sometimes reading an ad that list a special "Barf" price makes me laugh. Its only slightly overpriced now compared to significantly overpriced on CL.

That said, I also understand the other side of the coin and why comments re: prices are so bad on a sale thread. Some deal on BaRF is insanely good deals. As a seller, I wouldn't want to have that same deal thrown in my face when I go to sell a similar bike. Just because that guy sold his 2014 600rr with 500 miles on it for $4000. Now that other ad is gonna get blasted on my for sale thread because I'm asking $8000. Now everyone who reads my ad will think my bike is way overpriced because of someone else's firesale.

 

[budman]

Good thread.. and useful too.

I think we do need to hear this stuff.
We did take action with the Ninja 300.. I PM'd the gent myself.

What da heck?? Why?? Etc.

Since a mass of Moderators will be meeting here in a couple of weeks to discuss all things barf this topic is worthy. Mackey Stingray did a fair and noble job of working the classified and faz was awesome being the next dude. However Faz is gone.. and we don't have a full time (well part time volunteer) really rocking classifieds.

Some good points of discussion.

 

[Z3n]

I can see how it looks like nothing has changed, from your side of the fence. In fact there have been a few incidents in classified that got a LOT of mod attention and resulted in changes in moderation.

Z3N, and byke, I respectfully request that you guys bring it back to 5ish (instead of ... like... 13 !! ) with your expectations of how much and how fast we react to your suggestions.

In my opinion, this expectation of instant response was one of the things that was a problem with the KTM690 ad. Let me ask you; how well do YOU react when someone, you don't know or have any reason to trust, DEMANDS that you do something RIGHT NOW ?? hmmmm ?

Honestly, it depends on what they're "demanding". And on the internet, I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt, that they're being a bit snarky or whatever. Cause it's the internet, and reading too far into it is just going to cause grief.

And the only reason I'm still posting about this is because people keep bringing it up other points, many of which I don't feel hold up to extended inspection.

As a member who's both bought and sold bikes on this site and frequently browse BaRF for the next toy, THANK YOU to you Z3n for trying to bring for clarity and ACCOUNTIBILITY to ads on this site. Even if it doesn't change anything, I appreciate the effort as I often get annoyed at seeing the ludicrous asking prices too. Just today I pm'ed a member re: his bike and included a recently sold bike from cycletrader for comparison.

Sometimes reading an ad that list a special "Barf" price makes me laugh. Its only slightly overpriced now compared to significantly overpriced on CL.

That said, I also understand the other side of the coin and why comments re: prices are so bad on a sale thread. Some deal on BaRF is insanely good deals. As a seller, I wouldn't want to have that same deal thrown in my face when I go to sell a similar bike. Just because that guy sold his 2014 600rr with 500 miles on it for $4000. Now that other ad is gonna get blasted on my for sale thread because I'm asking $8000. Now everyone who reads my ad will think my bike is way overpriced because of someone else's firesale.

I don't think anyone with any common sense will think that. Of course, internet

But again, it falls under the catagory of "don't be a dick". Searching for the lowest price bike and constantly posting that shit on every thread that pops up is being a dick.

Good thread.. and useful too.

I think we do need to hear this stuff.
We did take action with the Ninja 300.. I PM'd the gent myself.

What da heck?? Why?? Etc.

Since a mass of Moderators will be meeting here in a couple of weeks to discuss all things barf this topic is worthy. Mackey Stingray did a fair and noble job of working the classified and faz was awesome being the next dude. However Faz is gone.. and we don't have a full time (well part time volunteer) really rocking classifieds.

Some good points of discussion.

So here's what I wonder: why couldn't that PM have been public? I think if there's an expectation that people will be held to a reasonable standard on their pricing, then they're not going to do that shit after they see that they're just going to be called out for it.

Anyways - barring anyone else bringing up additional items about this, I feel like I've illustrated my piece on it. Thanks all for listening, thanks mods for doing what ya do, thanks budman for chiming in. Either way, I'll still be around, buying and selling bikes to live with my addiction.

Have a good weekend all