What will it take to convince you of climate change?

[corndog67]

In order for your argument to work, you must assume that that none of man's activities has any effect on climate, and therefore changing human behaviors will not change the rate of climate change. That is totally false. The CO2 component alone debunks that assumption. You can watch Bill Bye's CO2-temperature experiment on youtube if you doubt this. What is up for debate is if man has a net positive or negative impact on radiative forcing.

So then, let's assume that man has no net impact or a negative impact on radiative forcing from our current activities. There are still portions of our positive component of radiative forcing, such as halocarbon, hydrocarbon, and CO2 emissions, that we can reduce to decrease the amount of positive forcing. Also, there are strategies that have been proposed to increase surface albedo, much like a volcanic eruption increases albedo, by inserting aerosols into the stratosphere. There are aloso very attainable strategies to increase albedo over heat islands like cities. There are many proposed strategies, but these have the most traction currently. Decreasing the man-made component will decrease overall forcing, and have a cooling effect relative to how it is right now.

Bottom line is, even if natural causes are driving climate change (which the data do not indicate, but this is a thought experiment) that doesn't mean we have zero options to alter the speed at which it is happening. The data show that we do have that power, just not all the technology yet (at least to maintain our current standard of living at the same time). If one chooses to dismiss the data and subscribe to a fatalistic view instead, well, they are the ones that have to square it with themselves and their children and grandchildren.

But, but, but.......Coors. Rush Limbaugh says it's all hooey. So does every Republican, because, after all, this is a politcal issue, right? Not a survival issue?

There are people right here on the forum, parroting the right wing talking points. Yet we have a scientist, a ginoooine scientifical type guy, right here in Coors Light. Explaining things in a way us mere worker bees can understand. Yet there are people that still assume that every climate scientist is on the take. Unbelievable.

Thanks for explaining things to us, Coors Light. I believe you. Now, if only you could get Rush Limbaugh to believe it, a whole bunch of the country would get a clue.

 

[nakedape]

Glad someone mentioned the rainforest. I'm sure most here recall the save the rainforest musical benefits, trying to call attention to the fact that science had already determined its health affected the world's climate. In the ensuing decades, mining logging and big ag ops destroyed enough to, according to science, dry up the area by taking away the canopy that grabs the moisture and puts in where humans need it.

Agree with socializing costs of remediation on the backs of average folks as onerous. Also, the predictions of the sky is falling crowd are completely unrealized. Big business was having its feet held to fire and paying out big damages for wanton pollution but now they are trading pollution credits. I happen to know a guy and a gal who went to Copenhagen and that was all about resource management and recycling precious metals (then and now exploding demand).

Climate change policy is business driven. Industry has managed to turn around legit criticism of "greenwashing" and other shady practices to limit liability into a collective guilt trip to socialize costs. Our drought here in the state proves long term thinking that conflicts with utility profits trumps consideration of the environment and ratepayers. If you think exponentially bigger stakes at the global level are driven by environmental conscience you're high.

 

[Ducky_Fresh]

When mass extinction starts occurring and it is too late. Duh?

 

[nbean16]

But, but, but.......Coors. Rush Limbaugh says it's all hooey. So does every Republican, because, after all, this is a politcal issue, right? Not a survival issue?

There are people right here on the forum, parroting the right wing talking points. Yet we have a scientist, a ginoooine scientifical type guy, right here in Coors Light. Explaining things in a way us mere worker bees can understand. Yet there are people that still assume that every climate scientist is on the take. Unbelievable.

Thanks for explaining things to us, Coors Light. I believe you. Now, if only you could get Rush Limbaugh to believe it, a whole bunch of the country would get a clue.

So what if barf had a second scientist that disagreed with Coors? Does your head just explode? Assuming that anyone who doesn't agree is just doing it for political reasons or because they listen to rush Limbaugh is ridiculous. Just because scientists are perceived as smarter than other people does mean everyone has to bow down to their majority assessment of every situation without making up their own minds. People being made out as dumb hicks or party shills because they have a dissenting opinion, is a huge part of the problem.

But I like Coors posts too.

 

[89fj]

I believe in global warming but I also think it is a tool for the left to fuck with the right.

 

[RRR70]

I believe in global warming but I also think it is a tool for the left to fuck with the right.

Global warming isn't the popular term anymore. It's climate change. Duh.

 

[packnrat]

about 10,000 years.

 

[corndog67]

So what if barf had a second scientist that disagreed with Coors? Does your head just explode? Assuming that anyone who doesn't agree is just doing it for political reasons or because they listen to rush Limbaugh is ridiculous. Just because scientists are perceived as smarter than other people does mean everyone has to bow down to their majority assessment of every situation without making up their own minds. People being made out as dumb hicks or party shills because they have a dissenting opinion, is a huge part of the problem.

But I like Coors posts too.

According to the scientists, 93% of them agree that global warming is an issue. I tend to believe scientists more than I believe Rush Limbaugh or professional politicians. Kind of like Apple. 93% of the world runs PC.

Do you think every scientist is on the take, or is maybe 1 or 2 of them is on the level?

 

[Brokenlink]

So what if barf had a second scientist that disagreed with Coors? Does your head just explode? Assuming that anyone who doesn't agree is just doing it for political reasons or because they listen to rush Limbaugh is ridiculous. Just because scientists are perceived as smarter than other people does mean everyone has to bow down to their majority assessment of every situation without making up their own minds. People being made out as dumb hicks or party shills because they have a dissenting opinion, is a huge part of the problem.

But I like Coors posts too.

Actually I believe there have been three scientists posting in this thread that all agree. We're still waiting for the second disagreeable scientist to show up. Maybe he's too busy picking up his check from Chevron.

Global warming isn't the popular term anymore. It's climate change. Duh.

This is true. The reason is that global warming was a misleading term. People tended to pick up on the "warming" part and say "How can it be global warming if the antarctic ice caps are growing?" or "How can it be global warming if my refrigerator still works?"

Climate change is a more accurate description of what is happening. And make no mistake, it is happening.

 

[RRR70]

Climate change is a more accurate description of what is happening. And make no mistake, it is happening.

I never said it isn't happening. I said that notion that it's ALL our doing is retarded.

 

[kevin 714]

I believe in global warming but I also think it is a tool for the left to fuck with the right.

mostly just in this country. the right has polticized climate change here in a way it isnt in pretty much any other country. its not a topic split down political lines, like it is here.

 

[Brokenlink]

I never said it isn't happening. I said that notion that it's ALL our doing is retarded.

Again, why does that matter? You are arguing about who broke the priceless vase. Meanwhile, the vase is broken and nobody is getting glue to fix it because people like you are too busy trying to deflect or project blame.

 

[byke]

It's a weird head game. Those of us who don't know a bunch about it need that little concession so that we can keep one foot on something we know. People typically don't do well diving into an area of complete unknown and will constantly try to make connections to things they think they know. It's also sort of a test and when knowledgeable people won't concede this fact, then we think we can't trust any of their information, but you gotta let people with questions chase their curiosities as far as they want down the rabbit hole, even if it reveals some weaker areas in the argument, because it's the only way to reflect honesty.

 

[HeatXfer]

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet (or maybe it has)

Milankovitch cycles (Google search)

I believe humans have been a part of the climate changes, but not exclusively.

 

[planegray]

When mass extinction starts occurring and it is too late. Duh?

damn, it's like you're channeling Nostradamus ! ( or maybe George Orwell )

 

[bruceflinch]

Nah, retarded is using the fact that it was 80 degrees on one day as some sort of evidence. Sounds more like your political outlook is influencing you than roman who seems to he all over the map politicaly. You however seem to fit into a nice little liberal box that seems to follow every talking point of one party.

Im sure youve poured over all the scientific data and not just blindly believed what youve seen on tv.

Trigger word! Trigger word!

I don't need protection from climate change. I need protection from authoritarian government and those who chug its kool-aid.

Protection is as easy as spending less time with online Forums..

Good point. Most war is ultimately about natural resources.

Here I thought it was more Religion that caused it..

But, but, but.......Coors. Rush Limbaugh says it's all hooey. So does every Republican, because, after all, this is a politcal issue, right? Not a survival issue?

There are people right here on the forum, parroting the right wing talking points. Yet we have a scientist, a ginoooine scientifical type guy, right here in Coors Light. Explaining things in a way us mere worker bees can understand. Yet there are people that still assume that every climate scientist is on the take. Unbelievable.

Thanks for explaining things to us, Coors Light. I believe you. Now, if only you could get Rush Limbaugh to believe it, a whole bunch of the country would get a clue.

Trigger word! Trigger word!

I believe in global warming but I also think it is a tool for the left to fuck with the right.

Seriously...
I'm not a Scientist & never played one on TV.
Do I think, we have climate change? Most likely.

Do I think, as inhabitants of the earth, we cause pollution of our environment that could result in additional problems with climate change? Absolutely.

Do I think, we as humans should do more too stop/reduce pollution to the best of our ability? Absolutely.

Do I think, we can solve the problem without it becoming political? No.

 

[redruM]

I believe in global warming but I also think it is a tool for the plutocracy to fuck with the people.

fixed

 

[Pierre I am]

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet (or maybe it has)

Milankovitch cycles (Google search)

I believe humans have been a part of the climate changes, but not exclusively.

The time scale for the three different types of cycles is way too long. Your're talking about processes that range from 5k years to 100k years. Also we're in a current situation where the milankovich cycles are helping reduce the impact of climate change.

Yes a changing climate is something that the Earth does during the course of its life, the issue with climate change is that humans are accelerating that change at a crazy pace. We have created most of this warming in the last 60-70 years.

 

[CoorsLight]

fixed

I sort of agree with you here. There is no shortage of profiteers like Al Gore stirring up FUD as a foundation for their greedy, anti-productive schemes like cap and trade.

The scientists have been characterizing the problem. Now we need engineers to start work on ameliorating the problem. Unfortunately, the businessmen have long ago seized the opportunity and force these worthless "economic solutions" on us.

 

[nbean16]

Actually I believe there have been three scientists posting in this thread that all agree. We're still waiting for the second disagreeable scientist to show up. Maybe he's too busy picking up his check from Chevron.

Ok. You clearly didnt understand my post. Maybe if you tell your car windows up story for the tenth time we will all get it.