5 dead in fatal motorcycle crash

[Gnarly Cranium]

Hey, stop that! I was totally digging that 4-second-spacing line of reasoning, and how the last rider would arrive half a minute after the first impact.

Shhh, that was just a conspiracy made up by an idiot who doesn't understand math.

 

[sanjuro]

Now that we are moving onto the "Guessing" part of this thread, my guess is that there were probably 20+ Harley riders doing the speed limit, which to most drivers is going too slow.

Because the riders were strung out, it was not easy to pass, so the douchebag in the Honda decided to end 5 lives so he can pass.

Irritation or impatience, you don't freaking pass when it is not safe, caging or throttling.

 

[kiltwearinfool]

It breaks my heart but I'm going to say something rather bluntly, and it is speculative, but.... I bet none of the dead were wearing full-faced helmets and/or any other practical riding gear.

In this case, with a vehicle traveling at them at a decent rate of speed, I don't think it would have made much difference for the lead riders. A friend died by riding into the back end of an SUV at 70, wearing full gear.

In regards to what the best case reaction scenario would have been, I choose C and B, for both the oncoming driver and motorcyclists. Slow down as rapidly as possible in a controlled manner, pulling off the road as far as safely possible. In the desert, do your braking on the pavement, before pulling onto what could be a sandy, slippery shoulder. Signal as you slow.

In regards to the "Stop or Chase" question, always stop. Especially if you are a witness. Even if you don't have medical training, you can always shield someone from the sun or wind, get water, comfort uninjured riders and observe them for shock, put out fires, stop/direct traffic, get descriptions of the fleeing motorist, etc. Regardless of what they ride, they're fellow riders. There's always something you can do for them.

In regards to what to do if I was the perp, Pull off the road, stay in my car. Call CHP. Stay on the phone. If I felt I was in danger from the remaining riders, I'd tell the CHP on the line of my fear & drive up the road until I found an officer to flag down.

I'm sad for the riders & their families, but I'm more sad for the speculators who think the riders could have been responsible in some way.

 

[DataDan]

Driver in motorcycle club crash not charged

No drunken driving charges will be filed against the driver injured Saturday when he veered into a group of 12 motorcycles from a Lakeside club while trying to avoid a passing car, authorities said Monday. Five people were killed in the crash east of Ocotillo, including the driver’s girlfriend.

The California Highway Patrol continues to look for the driver of the gold Honda Civic that caused the accident by trying to pass the motorcyclists.

The blood-alcohol test done on Carlos Ramirez Bobadill, 36, of Mexicali, Mexico, came back negative and showed no alcohol in his system, CHP Pablo Torrez said. The test was done after officers said he smelled faintly of alcohol.

Authorities Monday identified Bobadill’s girlfriend as Ana Gonzalez, 31, who also was from Mexicali, Torrez said. She was a passenger in his Dodge Avenger.

Gonzalez died at the scene, as did Lance Heath, 43, and his wife, Amy, 36, of Alpine; Bill Miller, 57, of Ramona; and Tonya Trayer, 37, of Lakeside.​

RIP Ana, Lance, Amy, Bill, and Tonya.

Is there any possible way to keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum?

I'm done now.

 

[Sane_Man]

Mike, Dave, Brian; there appears to be a faint order of alcohol on your posts.

I'm high on life.

 

[SuperMike]

No drunken driving charges will be filed against the driver injured Saturday when he veered into a group of 12 motorcycles...

So he wasn't drunk. He still lost control of his vehicle. He wasn't hit, pushed, rammed or otherwise physically forced off of the road, or back on it and into the motorcyclists. He did that all on his own. So does he bear any responsibility for the deaths or injuries he directly caused?

I know he was "taking evasive action", but he did a piss poor job of it and killed 5 people.

 

[reidconti]

So he wasn't drunk. He still lost control of his vehicle. He wasn't hit, pushed, rammed or otherwise physically forced off of the road, or back on it and into the motorcyclists. He did that all on his own. So does he bear any responsibility for the deaths or injuries he directly caused?

I know he was "taking evasive action", but he did a piss poor job of it and killed 5 people.

It depends on whether his piss-poor evasive action was reasonable or not.

Of course he'll claim he "had to take evasive action to avoid the maniac in the Civic."

Who else witnessed the allegedly-dangerous pass? A bunch of riders who were probably surprised that anyone would pass them (as only the riders in the very back would have seen the Civic in their mirrors, assuming they looked).

I'm not yet convinced that the pass was dangerous nor that the Avenger driver wasn't overreacting.

From the sound of things, it probably was a dangerous move. OTOH, how do you safely pass a big spread-out pack of motorcycles? Of *course* he was speeding, who obeys the speed limit (or, in some places, the 5-over-allowed-for-passing limit) in the middle of a pass?

 

[tzrider]

He wasn't hit, pushed, rammed or otherwise physically forced off of the road, or back on it and into the motorcyclists.

I dunno what the law would say, but faced with a choice between veering off the road or a certain head-on with another car, he was as good as forced.

 

[louemc]

Irritation or impatience, you don't freaking pass when it is not safe, caging or throttling.

News flash...Cars are slamming into each other every day.

Drivers are doing wrong things everyday.

Using horribly wrong judgement, or totally distracted and not even deciding what to do.

Makes quite an incentive (or it could make one) for a biker to ride like their life depended on their abilities, and protective gear, type of bike, the whole package. Just to have better odds out there.

 

[SuperMike]

I dunno what the law would say, but faced with a choice between veering off the road or a certain head-on with another car, he was as good as forced.

That's why I put 'physically' in there.

Am I wrong to be upset that he failed to safely control his vehicle? Veering off the road is one thing, but losing control is another.

 

[tzrider]

Am I wrong to be upset that he failed to safely control his vehicle? Veering off the road is one thing, but losing control is another.

Without knowing more, I have a hard time blaming the guy based on what's been reported so far. Given that his girlfriend was one of the deceased, I bet nobody wishes more than he does that he'd been able to better control his car.

 

[louemc]

That's why I put 'physically' in there.

Am I wrong to be upset that he failed to safely control his vehicle? Veering off the road is one thing, but losing control is another.

Try dropping a wheel (or both wheels on that side) off the pavement at 60 MPH, get acquainted with how your car behaves in different dirt types, and what may be in that dirt.

Get acquainted with how controlled the car is, getting back on the road (a little thing that might be needed some time, say if a boulder or a ditch/culvert prevents staying partially off the road till you stop).

You could be surprised at how out of control, things get.

 

[SuperMike]

Try dropping a wheel off the pavement at 60 MPH...

60 MPH isn't very fast. It amazes me how often drivers manage to do the wrong things in "panic" situations and end up losing control of their vehicles through erratic input.

 

[louemc]

60 MPH isn't very fast. It amazes me how often drivers manage to do the wrong things in "panic" situations and end up losing control of their vehicles through erratic input.

That's right, 60 MPH isn't very fast...when nothing is going wrong...are you experienced with dropping off the pavement at 60 MPH with the tires on one side of your car?

I'm thinking you aren't, by what your saying.

As far as being amazed by drivers losing control, well yeah they do that on a regular basis...with all four wheels on the pavement.

Very small percentage of drivers can handle anything un-usual....same goes for bikers.
Sure don't have to read far on BARF posts to read...patch of gravel, there was water, something spilled on the road, whatever whatever.

Requiring off road racing, to get a drivers license would sure make for better drivers behavior on road.
(sure would thin the crowd on the road as well )

 

[DaveT319]

Mike, Dave, Brian; there appears to be a faint order of alcohol on your posts.

If it's only faint, I'm doing it wrong!

 

[SuperMike]

...are you experienced with dropping off the pavement at 60 MPH with the tires on one side of your car?

I'm thinking you aren't, by what your saying.

Yes, and if we're going to discuss my experience, I have to say that I've almost always been able to, at the very least, keep my car going where I wanted it to go. The only exception being on ice.

 

[DaveT319]

Of *course* he was speeding, who obeys the speed limit (or, in some places, the 5-over-allowed-for-passing limit) in the middle of a pass?

That 5-over-to-pass rule is such horseshit. I want to complete the maneuver as quickly as possible, not have to take a quarter mile to get past a semi.

 

[MikeL]

Yes, and if we're going to discuss my experience, I have to say that I've almost always been able to, at the very least, keep my car going where I wanted it to go. The only exception being on ice.

Invest in a snowcat! Ice is never an issue! But your commute might be a little slow.

 

[xlcr]

How else can we blame this on Bush?

I'm sure Climber is working on that at this very moment.

 

[2strokeYardSale]

So he wasn't drunk. He still lost control of his vehicle. He wasn't hit, pushed, rammed or otherwise physically forced off of the road, or back on it and into the motorcyclists. He did that all on his own. So does he bear any responsibility for the deaths or injuries he directly caused?

I know he was "taking evasive action", but he did a piss poor job of it and killed 5 people.

The exact same situation happened in May 1994 on Hwy. 1 and resulted in the deaths of three motorcyclists. The driver of the oncoming vehicle who lost control was perceived as another victim. The rider of the passing vehicle in the oncoming lane was perceived as the villain and was convicted of a crime.

Driver in motorcycle club crash not charged

...
The blood-alcohol test done on Carlos Ramirez Bobadill, 36, of Mexicali, Mexico, came back negative and showed no alcohol in his system, CHP Pablo Torrez said. The test was done after officers said he smelled faintly of alcohol.

Wait, what was that about conspiracy theories?