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8 reasons to buy this type of motorcycle

OK, my turn.

8 reasons to NOT buy an e-motorcycle:

1) Range sucks

Seriously. Less range than an Aprilia Tuono. Nobody needs that unless you're buying for a commuter.

2) Price is high

For what you get vs. comparatively priced ICE motorcycles.

3) Lack of charging infrastructure

Sorry, but fast chargers are just too few and far in between considering the bad freeway range of these bikes.

Zeros can't even use fast chargers. Another epic fail.

4) Hard/impossible to do maintenance yourself

Everything is computerized and proprietary. I hate my Tesla for this. You need the factory/dealer laptop to do work on the critical components.

5) Lack of dealer or independent service infrastructure


It's just not there. Ask your local moto indy shop to repair something in your motor.

6) Evolving very quick.

The bike you buy today for $20K will have half the features and range of the same model that you'll buy in 2-3 years.

7) Lack of premium features at a premium price.

Where is the dynamic suspension? At this price point, I expect a bike to have it.

8) Bad resale value

It's a niche bike, so you'll have a very small pool of customers willing to buy. Moreso, since the tech evolves so quick, you're guaranteed extreme depreciation.
 
I don't know of any perfect thing, especially motorcycles and don't even get me started on dual sports. You just like the bike for the positives and hopefully you've done your research and you know yourself well enough to know whether or not the negatives are deal breakers so you don't end up buying something you don't like, then you go ride the thing. Not all bikes are made for all the people and do all the things. This is not a new concept with motorcycles, or anything. Money is pretty much my only filter, otherwise I'd have all the motorcycles and none of you would have any.
 
mrzuzzo said:
OK, my turn.

8 reasons to NOT buy an e-motorcycle:

1) Range sucks

Seriously. Less range than an Aprilia Tuono. Nobody needs that unless you're buying for a commuter.


3) Lack of charging infrastructure

Sorry, but fast chargers are just too few and far in between considering the bad freeway range of these bikes.

Zeros can't even use fast chargers. Another epic fail.
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My RC51 has horrible range, I'm looking for gas every 100 miles... but recharging for another 100 miles takes a few minutes and that includes time to pee...

according to zero the SRF whatever with the extended "tank" is good for 112miles of highway riding... and takes an hour to charge 95% on the absolute best charging platform available.

I'd rather be able to ride all around without wondering how and where I'll charge up... I can "charge" at any gas station.

edit: their site says that 112 miles it at 70mph on the freeway :laughing .... try real california speeds, I feel safest at at least 80mph making sure im the fastest moving thing on the freeway in the left lane. What's the range at real speed? and does the motor overheat?
 
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orbframe said:
according to zero the SRF whatever with the extended "tank" is good for 112miles of highway riding... and takes an hour to charge 95% on the absolute best charging platform available.
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If the Power tank is added, it takes longer than an hour. The power tank is not compatible which the charge tank, you cannot have both. It's a choice.

The Zero SR/F has a 14.7 KWH battery ( a bit less than 13 KWH is usable). The Premium SR/F can only charge at 6 KW. So that is more than two hours.

The extra charge tank (adds six KW to the other six KW, total is 12 KW) is useless in the USA as our J-1772 stations can only handle 7 KW max (and often less). The Charge tank is for European buyers where they can make use out of it.

The Zeros have a lousy charging system. But usually not an issue. People usually only charge at home during the night.

The Energicas have fast charging. They use CCS and charge at 25 KW. Shorter range than the Zero, but MUCH faster charging and a much better bike for a trip.

Between here and my house in Auburn, CA there are 6 locations with multiple CCS chargers. Every 20 miles or so in that one hundred miles. One 15 minute charge at the half way point is more than enough to do the 100 miles. The first part is mostly uphill in either direction. The summit is the half way point. I could probably make it all they way on my home charge, as it is mostly downhill after the summit anyway. But I don't want to chance that, so I always do one recharge on the way.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
DonTom said:
Between here and my house in Auburn, CA there are 6 locations with multiple CCS chargers. Every 20 miles or so in that one hundred miles. One 15 minute charge at the half way point is more than enough to do the 100 miles. The first part is mostly uphill in either direction. The summit is the half way point. I could probably make it all they way on my home charge, as it is mostly downhill after the summit anyway. But I don't want to chance that, so I always do one recharge on the way.

-Don- Reno, NV
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100 miles there, 100 miles back. 200 miles total, and that's just to Auburn. Granted there is some killer food at Joe Caribe's in Auburn, but otherwise...

So you're charging once on the ride, presumably again in Auburn, and then once on the way home... meanwhile on my range handicapped honda I'd need a gas stop in Auburn, and on the harleys I'd have plenty to make it there and back (a little close on the dyna but I could squeeze it).

All that charging infrastructure disappears once you leave the main roads...
 
Whammy said:
Flawed data.... or would this be an exception?
"The European survey did reveal some Tesla drivers experienced significantly shorter battery life."
I re assert this medium is just not quite there yet and as I stated earlier how to dispose of them once their service life is done.
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DonTom said:
The Tesla batteries are expected to last 27 years. My Zero SR around 350,000 miles for the range to drop down to 80%.

-Don- Reno, NV
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A riding bud just picked up a used Tesla from Tesla. I think it had clocked mileage in the mid 20k range Before he took delivery Tesla tested the batteries and a motor and had to replace both.

mrzuzzo said:
Do gas stations not need electricity to function? :laughing
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Yup but during PG&E's temper tantrum I could ride over to Pacifica from Moss Beach and fuel up. I would be SHOL w/ an electric vehicle sitting in the garage.
 
ob1ventura said:
A
Yup but during PG&E's temper tantrum I could ride over to Pacifica from Moss Beach and fuel up. I would be SHOL w/ an electric vehicle sitting in the garage.
Click to expand...

Not really, you could just drive to a Supercharger that does have power.
 
The electric bike enthusiasts are like those religious people that try to convert you. I have no interest at the moment in owning an electric bike. But I’m glad that you’re enthusiastic....
 
"Charging at home" is non-trivial in urban areas. Electric vehicles are pretty cool and will be the future, but at this point they don't seem viable for people who aren't at least reasonably well off once you consider buy in cost and charger availability.

That isn't a dig at electrics, the tech is new and like all new things it's expensive and not a mass market product yet. The wealthy can work out the bugs and fund the development costs and in not too long we will hopefully have a well developed charging infrastructure and electrics with decent range that cost about as much as a Honda Civic.
 
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orbframe said:
100 miles there, 100 miles back. 200 miles total, and that's just to Auburn. Granted there is some killer food at Joe Caribe's in Auburn, but otherwise...
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I have had every dish on their menu. I like it all, but I think their salmon is the best anywhere. Have you tried it? And when they have them, the Salmon Tacos are excellent also, so check the specials board when you walk in. I ate there many times before I even noticed the specials board. They also make great burritos. I love their mild curry. Their chicken on curry noddles is also great.

My house in Auburn is only a few miles from Joe Caribe's. Up in Christian Valley. So I eat at JC's often.

orbframe said:
So you're charging once on the ride, presumably again in Auburn, and then once on the way home... meanwhile on my range handicapped honda I'd need a gas stop in Auburn, and on the harleys I'd have plenty to make it there and back (a little close on the dyna but I could squeeze it).
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I always leave home with a full charge. I like to take one break during the ride anyway, so the charge stop is NBD. I usually take a break when I ride the ice bike as well. I am retired and usually not in a hurry to get places. I sometimes take Hwy 20 to Auburn and also go through Willow Valley. There is a new CCS charge station in Grass Valley, but I only use it going east (uphill) and then charge again in Kingvale on I-80.

orbframe said:
All that charging infrastructure disappears once you leave the main roads...
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It keeps on getting better, especially in CA. Here in NV and up north in CA is a problem on an electric. But if I am not sure if I can make a trip, I take my Moto Guzzi Stelvio with it's 400 mile range on a tank of gasoline (8.5 gallon tank). The electrics are only good for around 90% of my rides. The other ten per cent still requires a gas vehicle. I ride almost every day and it's mostly on electrics, by far.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
DonTom said:
I have had every dish on their menu. I like it all, but I think their salmon is the best anywhere. Have you tried it? And when they have them, the Salmon Tacos are excellent also, so check the specials board when you walk in. I ate there many times before I even noticed the specials board. They also make great burritos. I love their mild curry. Their chicken on curry noddles is also great.

My house in Auburn is only a few miles from Joe Caribe's. Up in Christian Valley. So I eat at JC's often.

I always leave home with a full charge. I like to take one break during the ride anyway, so the charge stop is NBD. I usually take a break when I ride the ice bike as well. I am retired and usually not in a hurry to get places. I sometimes take Hwy 20 to Auburn and also go through Willow Valley. There is a new CCS charge station in Grass Valley, but I only use it going east (uphill) and then charge again in Kingvale on I-80.

It keeps on getting better, especially in CA. Here in NV and up north in CA is a problem on an electric. But if I am not sure if I can make a trip, I take my Moto Guzzi Stelvio with it's 400 mile range on a tank of gasoline (8.5 gallon tank). The electrics are only good for around 90% of my rides. The other ten per cent still requires a gas vehicle. I ride almost every day and it's mostly on electrics, by far.

-Don- Reno, NV
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I’m riding the Harley livewire Saturday... I know it’s not the best example of an electric but it’ll be my first ride on one...

I’ll have to ride up to Auburn one day when you’re there and buy you lunch... and check out the electrics. I still love the sound of a gas engine, maybe if zero or another manufacturer would sacrifice a few watts for a speaker...
 
orbframe said:
I’m riding the Harley livewire Saturday... I know it’s not the best example of an electric but it’ll be my first ride on one...

I’ll have to ride up to Auburn one day when you’re there and buy you lunch... and check out the electrics. I still love the sound of a gas engine, maybe if zero or another manufacturer would sacrifice a few watts for a speaker...
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I thought Harley halted production of the livewire because of the danger of a malfunctioning charge port?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/14/harley-davidson-halts-production-of-new-electronic-motorcycles.html
 
ob1ventura said:
A riding bud just picked up a used Tesla from Tesla. I think it had clocked mileage in the mid 20k range Before he took delivery Tesla tested the batteries and a motor and had to replace both.
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Do you know what the problems were? If one tries hard enough, it is easy to ruin an EV battery. Simply drain it until there is nothing left and don't recharge it for a few months. I have not heard of the motors crapping out until now.

ob1ventura said:
Yup but during PG&E's temper tantrum I could ride over to Pacifica from Moss Beach and fuel up. I would be SHOL w/ an electric vehicle sitting in the garage.
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When I came back from Auburn last week after the power went out, all the gas stations on I-80 were closed until I got to Cisco Grove. Packed with trucks that needed diesel--all the way to I-80 from that station. That gas station also has a J-1772 EV charger in the back. From that point east, there was electricity as normal everywhere. West of there--no juice anywhere. Even the Denny's in New Castle was closed. I rode west on my Zero SR and then came back home and decided to head for Reno (on my Moto Guzzi) where there was power.

BTW, I could have taken any of my vehicles back here that day. Including the EVs. All had enough charge and gas to get to either the first charge station or gas station.

-Don- Reno, NV
 
bpw said:
While going electric for transportation is certainly a big reduction in your oil consumption, you are still buying plenty of petroleum from those oil companies on a daily basis.
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You are certainly and lamentably right. Few people appreciate how all the petro-energy has infiltrated our lives, especially our food supplies.

The bottom line is I just can't stand to pump their gas and put money directly into their cheatin' lyin' mouths while breathing and spewing carcinogens.

I'm working as much as I can to reduce my carbon footprint. Not to be holier than thou, but it's just my new hobby in retirement. Somebody wiser than me said, "Be the change you want to see." I'm aiming at it.

100% of my electricity is from renewables. I grow a large chunk of my own food, organically.

My biggest complaint is all the plastic packaging that's hard to avoid. Buying in bulk from Rainbow Grocery helps with a lot of that. But wrapping pliers in plastic blister packs? Come ON!

I try not to be a dick about my EV's (or anything else). Agreed that "shoulding" on other people is way obnoxious.

I find EV's extraordinarily suited for their intended use case. Beyond where they are appropriate, they aren't easily workable. I commuted into SF for 3 years on an e-moto, rode around the city during my job, and rode home at night. 30 to 80 miles a day. 41K miles for $410 fuel cost, two tires, one chain, one set of brake pads. No other service costs. Seems usable and practical to me.

And 0-30 mph in 1.5 seconds made it fairly thrilling for my sorry old butt.

Today, I picked up about 40 lbs of goods on my electric bicycle and brought them home 12 miles, in two saddle bags, for the electric cost equivalent of 1181 mpg and no gym fees. Seems practical to me.

If folks want to fly a F-18 at Mach 1.3 to their 10K lb. trailer to tow with their Hummer, or whatever, with a tanker truck in tow, across the country in three days, while chewing on beef jerky, that's OK with me: just a different hobby. :ride
 
orbframe said:
I’m riding the Harley Livewire Saturday... I know it’s not the best example of an electric but it’ll be my first ride on one...
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After reading about it in Cycle World a few minutes ago, it sounds like it might actually be the best example of an electric motorcycle, if you ignore the price. They have put top notch components on it and it's supposed to do 0-60 in 3.0 seconds. Just crank open the throttle and hang on.
 
ScottRNelson said:
They have put top notch components on it and it's supposed to do 0-60 in 3.0 seconds.
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It's a mixture of good stuff and junk.

For an example, the LW has a cheap battery than cannot handle more than 12 KW charging from CCS. It also has a cheap OBC (On Board Charger) that cannot do true level two charging (which is also giving them problems) that only does 1.5 KW with 240 VAC.

No matter how we look at it, it's not 30K$ worth of bike. Perhaps 20K$ worth, IMO.

And perhaps most of the better E-bikes will do around 0-60 in 3 seconds or less just after the battery is freshly charged (with its highest voltage and cool motor).

-Don- Reno, NV
 
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