Accidentally hitting throttle when hard braking

[Phanuel]

I fail to see how clip-ons matter at all here...

 

[DucatiHoney]

Same problem here...I was told "small hands" are the culprit. I adjusted the lever position and the problem has nearly gone away, but I still do it once in a while. Do you notice if you do this when you're tired or in more of a "I gotta be alert" situation? I think that part of my problem is that I'm a little stretched out on the bike and when I'm worn out or want to see better, I straighten my arms to get more upright and that makes my hand reach situation worse. I do the throttle-instead-of-braking thing under the above-listed conditions. Maybe you do too?

+1 to ignoring Lou. There's a self-delusional village missing its expert-on-everything somewhere.

 

[Jackson]

This is common in new riders. When your weight transfers during acceleration and braking the natural instinct is to hold on with your hands, it's how we are physically constructed.

You're going through the retraining process to teach yourself not to move that wrist when you experience a weight transfer. Gripping the bike with your legs will help as you won't feel the need to "hold on" which causes the throttle twist.

If anyone says they never have it happen, don't listen to them. They're just too dense to remember.

 

[louemc]

I fail to see how clip-ons matter at all here...

OK, enter a Flat Track or Motocross race ... And roll up to the starting line, with clip-ons mounted....
See how well you do in the finishing order.

Contemplate the reason you were the only one at the starting line, with Clip-ons.

Ya say ya don't need more effective handle bars, than clip-ons, on the public road?

Even though you might have noticed that the road surfaces, might be variable as hell, with dirt/gravel/slick with only God knows what spills.
And distracted drivers that can't be bothered with learning how to drive, types.

Lots of pro road racers, won't even ride on the public road...
They always say... "it's too dangerous".

 

[ZXR400SP]

Clip-ons are not the problem....... Blaming equipment for lack of skill. Adjust levers and or replace them with something that fits better and practice braking. One finger braking is available on some bikes, though they probably come with clip-ons.

 

[DucatiHoney]

All I can do is laugh at this jumble of complete bull.

Your handle should be "Loue 'all the tropes' mc".

I blame myself as a moderator for perhaps setting a poor example with my post above, however, let's remember that this is less about ribbing Lou and more about the riding issue originally posted. I encourage you to reach out to Lou through a private message should you want to speak freely about your issues with his approach. (We don't moderate PM's... so go nuts! arty ....within reason, of course.) Thanks!

 

[tzrider]

I strongly suspect that your application of the throttle is not related to the weight on your hands when braking, but by the location of the brake lever. If you rotated the lever downwards a bit, the angle would reduce your need to rotate your wrist when you reach for the brake lever. You can easily move the lever yourself by loosening the bottom fastener on the clip that holds the brake lever to the handlebar. Loosen it one quarter of a turn at a time and try to rotate the brake lever assembly downwards a slight amount. Tighten the fastener and go for a ride. If it doesn't suit you, rotate the lever a little bit more and try again.

I mostly agree but the problem can also occur if the lever is too low. Sanjuro's suggestion to align the lever with your outstretched fingers is spot on. Get into the posture you're in for braking, position your hand on the grip so the wrist, hand and extended fingertips are straight and that's where you want the lever.

If you can adjust the lever span, try to get it so the lever contacts your fingers between the first and second knuckle when the brakes first start to bite. A lever that's too close to the bar tends to make the rider turn the throttle hand to pull the brake.

 

[flying_hun]

I mostly agree but the problem can also occur if the lever is too low. Sanjuro's suggestion to align the lever with your outstretched fingers is spot on. Get into the posture you're in for braking, position your hand on the grip so the wrist, hand and extended fingertips are straight and that's where you want the lever.

If you can adjust the lever span, try to get it so the lever contacts your fingers between the first and second knuckle when the brakes first start to bite. A lever that's too close to the bar tends to make the rider turn the throttle hand to pull the brake.

What he said. ^^^

 

[KittenMeat]

[youtube]VTVoom62TaI[/youtube]
[youtube]twW0ClpyLKc[/youtube]


"but motoGP guys use clipons, not handlebars"

yeah, they also don't ride their GP bike on the street. Their position involves really building the bike AROUND the rider. Each one is incredibly customized, and built with one purpose in mind: maximizing acceleration and speed(aero).

Ever met a GP rider? They are usually short and REALLY strong. if clipons put your head in a position where you cant efficiently see around you, then change them. The best part about motorcycles is how easy they are to customize to fit you.

EBAY has TONS of different shorty/longy levers of different shapes. This is why motorcyclists like to meet up and hang out : you can try stuff out and see what you like or don't like.

It's the same reason I meet up and hang out with my mountain bike buddies when the season is good: We swap bikes, swap tips, suspension settings, and figure out what works and what doesn't.

The two videos above should help a LOT.


best thing on the SV is the GSXR front end with the GSXR brakes and brembo master cylinder. All of a sudden you aren't squeezing the ever loving heck out of the levers. You can get a custom top triple drilled for handlebars too. Ebay is your friend here.

 

[Phanuel]

"but motoGP guys use clipons, not handlebars"

yeah, they also don't ride their GP bike on the street. Their position involves really building the bike AROUND the rider. Each one is incredibly customized, and built with one purpose in mind: maximizing acceleration and speed(aero).

And this;

Is what a road bicycle looks like on the street when you're using your brakes.

Again, what do clip ons have to do with any of this?

 

[KittenMeat]

Again, what do clip ons have to do with any of this?

the 2nd gen SV has a pretty good forward reach to it. Clip ons usually dictate the angle at which the handlebars stick out, the height from seat to bars, and definitely dictate the horizontal distance from seat to the bars.

all of these things are semi adjustable on a motorcycle and can greatly impact your experience riding it.



Road bike is, much like motogp, a compromise in efficacy of control for the sake of aerodynamics, which are absolutely the most important factor in success in modern road racing. Ever tried braking with top of the line campy super record road brakes? They are terrible : Dura ace is at least vastly improved from the old stuff, but carbon rims have absolutely awful braking in general. That's a whole different topic though.

 

[Phanuel]

Yes, but mechanically, a clip on makes no difference from a bar if the bar was located in the same position as the clip on.

Rotating the controls so that your wrist is in line with them while your arm is straight and outstretched and adjusting the brake lever reach are the most important parts here.

The rest of this is frankly semantics and completely meaningless to the discussion.

I've had Ultegra and Sram Force on my bikes, I never has the 'pleasure' of the true Italian road bike experience.

 

[louemc]

+1 to ignoring Lou. There's a self-delusional village missing its expert-on-everything somewhere.

The Tribe has spoken.. .. Best I just get off the Island..

 

[planegray]

The Tribe has spoken.. .. Best I just get off the Island..

or, just ....

 

[louemc]

I'm a keep on truckin, kind of guy... I have lived adventure/exploring/pressing on.

(anyone else here Bicycle from Portland Oregon-to-Guatamala, and back?
And Bicycle around the South Island of New Zealand?
Or Explore The Andes of South America?

But... my posts, that reflect what I have learned (developed the mental process) in 60 years of riding, which includes the congestion of the Bay Area...
I was on the high rise of the San Mateo Bridge when the Loma Prieta Quake hit.
Aren't understood, and believed by other BARF members. I don't want to piss them off.

I'd prefer they learn from them, and gain greater safety... But that doesn't seem to be happening.

 

[Hooli]

EBAY has TONS of different shorty/longy levers of different shapes.

eBay would be the last place I'd buy an aftermarket lever. If you want aftermarket levers go with a reputable brand: AGV, CRG or Pazzo.

 

[Honey Badger]

Once you have things well adjusted, I would hazard a guess that HOW you are gripping the brakes needs some work. I experienced a similar issue for quite some time until I really learned how to position my hands on the bars and to use just the tip of my fingers on the brakes (I use two fingers) and then squeezing the lever at the start and a slow release at the end (Ken Hill's podcasts, while focused on track riding, do go over some of this information).

You should also be holding the bar like a screwdriver, or, to put it another way, so you can "point" at your gauge cluster with your index finger. If you're gripping the bars properly, and have your lever adjusted so you can use it properly, then you will likely find the problem goes away.

Your weight on the bars isn't really the issue - in racing, we can end up with a lot of weight on the bars when we're braking hard, you don't hear bikes revving up in the process - the issues you're experiencing are likely grip and adjustment related, especially if you're already focusing on gripping with your legs.

 

[Pluot]

Hi everyone,

I hadn't checked BARF over the weekend, will read through comments more closely later. I can see how the lever position (and lack of shortys) may be a problem. I actually have had my levers raised up higher on both my bikes because in the lower positioning they came in, I had to reach further down to grip my brake and that was not an ideal set up. I use my middle and ring fingers to brake, not my index and middle finger. My fingertips rest on my lever, but my fingers do not wrap over the lever in a resting position.

As far as the comment on blaming equipment and not skill, I don't see the relevance in this as this throttle hitting does not happen on my GS500. I posted to correct a possible error in skill, and it seems mostly to be a set up issue based on feedback.

I will try to take a picture sitting on my bike with my hand position relative to my brake lever later.

Edit: Here are pics of my hand positioning without gloves on. With gloves on the bulk makes me reach a little more to secure my fingers around the lever. I have the lever adjusted so it's set at 6, the closest to the handlebar I can bring the lever.

 

[stangmx13]

Hi everyone,

I hadn't checked BARF over the weekend, will read through comments more closely later. I can see how the lever position (and lack of shortys) may be a problem. I actually have had my levers raised up higher on both my bikes because in the lower positioning they came in, I had to reach further down to grip my brake and that was not an ideal set up. I use my middle and ring fingers to brake, not my index and middle finger. My fingertips rest on my lever, but my fingers do not wrap over the lever in a resting position.

sounds like the lever is too far away and u are having to move your wrist/arm too much to reach it. this, coupled with the fact that u still have your pointer finger and thumb wrapped around the throttle, is making it ez for u to accidentally twist the throttle.

having the brake lever far away can feel nice for braking power. the lever feels a little more firm and its easier to really add braking force. but u lose a lot of throttle control when u have to reach for it. its hard to roll-off smoothly and quickly, impossible to blip, and hard to roll-on smoothly too. adjust it towards the bar, just enough so that u arent crushing your other fingers when braking as hard as possible. given that u have small hands, u might not have enough room to leave your pointer finger in there. u might need to switch to 3-4 finger braking.

also, i wouldnt bother w/ shorty levers. they are usually shaped for pointer & middle finger brakers. u might not be able to get it into a good spot using middle & ring fingers.

edit: i see the pic now. the lever position/distance looks better than i expected. thats probably not the issue. how about a pic from the side showing arm and lever angle??

 

[louemc]

Hi everyone,

I hadn't checked BARF over the weekend, will read through comments more closely later. I can see how the lever position (and lack of shortys) may be a problem. I actually have had my levers raised up higher on both my bikes because in the lower positioning they came in, I had to reach further down to grip my brake and that was not an ideal set up. I use my middle and ring fingers to brake, not my index and middle finger. My fingertips rest on my lever, but my fingers do not wrap over the lever in a resting position.

As far as the comment on blaming equipment and not skill, I don't see the relevance in this as this throttle hitting does not happen on my GS500. I posted to correct a possible error in skill, and it seems mostly to be a set up issue based on feedback.

I will try to take a picture sitting on my bike with my hand position relative to my brake lever later.

Edit: Here are pics of my hand positioning without gloves on. With gloves on the bulk makes me reach a little more to secure my fingers around the lever. I have the lever adjusted so it's set at 6, the closest to the handlebar I can bring the lever.

I'd highly recommend, Getting to a Doc Wong free clinic.

One that is about ergonomics and adjustments... Face to face time, with a Pro.