AFM board meeting minutes

[Jello_Biafra]

Yeah, Rory's Special Olympics career is one to envy.

 

[Lazerus]

Hey, aleast I never needed that bright orange foam head gear. Gaaaaaah, hurray for me!

 

[KazMan]

Gaaaaaah, hurray for me!

That made me Laugh Out Loud

 

[CTS488]

Your probably right that it was later than 5 minutes but my main point was that they should have been looking forward not back (clear radar, it never rained again) and will stop repeating it since some people just refuse to acknowledge it. Who do I have to be to look at a dry track and know it's dry? It's kinda funny that everytime someone bucks the establishment position they are attacked as slow, the ultimate sin apparently. I would think their intelligence might be more determinant of the validity of their observations but what do I know I haven't won motorcycle championships with my meager budget and attitude that Im just out there to have fun and improve. It was the wrong decision no matter who agreed with it. To disagree with a simple observation means you don't know what the conditions were, you just assume that someone slower than you is not qualified to open his eyes and see if there's water or not, it ain't rocket science. I didn't have any agenda when I went out there, only after I saw it was dry and was like WTF.

Reread what I said, did not call you guys chimps, just said that motorcycle skills aren't required to see if it's dry, just a pair of eyeballs. I've always thought you fast guys were pimps, no reason for you guys to get all defensive and elitist on us mere peasants .

Maybe we need to legalize the brothels in California, people are getting a bit uptight and angry over a simple disagreement here.

Lastly, I apologize to Dan Kyle, I misread your post, thinking you called me a chimp, guess he would have been correct after I started to tear him a new one for no reason.

I'm sorry if you took it as a slow vs. fast thing.....not all. It's an experience thing. Any eyeball can tell you it's dry, true. Not every eyeball can tell you if the conditions are safe enough to race motorcycles on. I'm pretty confident in my ability to realize when it's not safe and what the limits of my riding capabilities are, many inexperienced riders are not familiar because they simply have not ridden in those types of conditions before.

Let me give you a prime example of a mistake of mine the shows regardless of my experience and skill, I'm still susceptible to this issue.....last year during one of the practice sessions at infineon, in the sunshine, the track had a VERY small amount of water seeping from the exit of turn 11, we're talking about maybe a large fist sized amount of water coming up from a crack. I happened to be one of the few that found that fist sized amount of water while exiting on my 200+ hp motorcycle which caught me off guard and proceeded to high side me off. I simply thought to myself that small amount of water could never be an issue, well it was. Many people would be facing those exact things at thunderhill that day, "It's only a small amount of water, i'll be fine!" or "Hey, that guy is carrying some good speed through the entry of that corner, i think i can too!", then next thing you know many people would be in the mud. It doesn't take much water to create an issue for riders of any skill level. To me, possible water on the entry of 2, 14,15 seems to be way more dangerous than the water we had at the exit of 11 at Infineon.

Again, I apologize if it came off as a "I'm fast, you're slow" deal, not at all. Get any experienced rider who has a lot of time in different conditions regardless of speed and I'll listen to what they have to say. We have a lot of experience in the AFM.

 

[sidewazzz]

Kyle, Jesus is not an AFM member. Hence the reason his particular concerns may go unadressed.



Sonny, that's completely voluntary you know. I think we're good enough friends that you could call me with any info you wanted, needed, or wished to have presented. It's just a phone call, or text.

My concerns? I've only wondered why AFM doesn't run on a wet track when everyone else does?

As far as my rant... It just dumb that the BOD won't make any effort to get the meeting in full detail to it's members like they have asked over and over again. Again simple real simple suggestions have been made over and over again, It would sure be nice to see someone that already attends (ie Bod member) to try it.

If you're wondering I was a member for 3 years and I have thought about doing the BOD thing but was really turning off by the way Alex was ran out of there. Will I be a AFM member again... not sure. Will I become a member with another race org you bet your ass.

 

[#1 tuner]

Wanna see my trophies?

Wanna see mine, I've crashed o'plenty!



Mj, read my post again. I never called you slow as I don't race, I am the bike owner & tuner. (for now) I merely pointed out that you were boasting a no get off record, like skiing or anything else to choose to excell in, if you aint crashing you aint trying. What you seem to refuse to acknowledge is the decision had to be made at that moment, when water was coming up from the track. I am no weather forecaster, but I think I do a better job just looking out the window. There is know way to know how long that window of opertunity would last. Just last night an upper air disturbance caused a temperature increase of 20 degrees after midnight with 50+ mph winds in Utah I believe. Point is, weatherman NEVER saw that coming. How could you be so sure you would get 5+ hours to race with? Answer= you couldn't. Hindsight will always be 20/20 & quaterbacking on Monday morning is easy.

 

[machete]

I'm sorry if you took it as a slow vs. fast thing.....not all. It's an experience thing. Any eyeball can tell you it's dry, true. Not every eyeball can tell you if the conditions are safe enough to race motorcycles on. I'm pretty confident in my ability to realize when it's not safe and what the limits of my riding capabilities are, many inexperienced riders are not familiar because they simply have not ridden in those types of conditions before.

Let me give you a prime example of a mistake of mine the shows regardless of my experience and skill, I'm still susceptible to this issue.....last year during one of the practice sessions at infineon, in the sunshine, the track had a VERY small amount of water seeping from the exit of turn 11, we're talking about maybe a large fist sized amount of water coming up from a crack. I happened to be one of the few that found that fist sized amount of water while exiting on my 200+ hp motorcycle which caught me off guard and proceeded to high side me off. I simply thought to myself that small amount of water could never be an issue, well it was. Many people would be facing those exact things at thunderhill that day, "It's only a small amount of water, i'll be fine!" or "Hey, that guy is carrying some good speed through the entry of that corner, i think i can too!", then next thing you know many people would be in the mud. It doesn't take much water to create an issue for riders of any skill level. To me, possible water on the entry of 2, 14,15 seems to be way more dangerous than the water we had at the exit of 11 at Infineon.

Again, I apologize if it came off as a "I'm fast, you're slow" deal, not at all. Get any experienced rider who has a lot of time in different conditions regardless of speed and I'll listen to what they have to say. We have a lot of experience in the AFM.

thanks for posting this.

Wanna see mine, I've crashed o'plenty!



Mj, read my post again. I never called you slow as I don't race, I am the bike owner & tuner. (for now) I merely pointed out that you were boasting a no get off record, like skiing or anything else to choose to excell in, if you aint crashing you aint trying. What you seem to refuse to acknowledge is the decision had to be made at that moment, when water was coming up from the track. I am no weather forecaster, but I think I do a better job just looking out the window. There is know way to know how long that window of opertunity would last. Just last night an upper air disturbance caused a temperature increase of 20 degrees after midnight with 50+ mph winds in Utah I believe. Point is, weatherman NEVER saw that coming. How could you be so sure you would get 5+ hours to race with? Answer= you couldn't. Hindsight will always be 20/20 & quaterbacking on Monday morning is easy.

guess he wasn't the only one that took it as such on the "slow vs fast". and we do value the experience of the seasoned AFM racers. I hope that the conversations here and questions that are being presented are also not taken the wrong way as if we want to debate this forever.
I've personally accepted that that race is gone.

I ask my questions for future events that may have this happen.....in case it was missed, it's cause I hope to be with AFM for many many years to come.

Chris or Dave, an honest question here. Would THill's wet track, this past round, have been manageable on full race rains for you guys or slower bikes? from wet to dry, etc... I"m just curious and not doing it to stir up why we didn't race.

 

[KazMan]

Chris or Dave, an honest question here. Would THill's wet track, this past round, have been manageable on full race rains for you guys or slower bikes? from wet to dry, etc... I"m just curious and not doing it to stir up why we didn't race.

I am also interested in seeing this answer as my previous racing with 'full' race rains was that water needed to be present to keep the tires cool. As this was discussed at the riders meeting, my previous life had me thinking that anyone on full race rains would be at a disadvantage on the track as it was because the lack of more water and after a couple laps the tires would have started going away.

Perhaps technology has changed in 20 years, but my thinking was that a soft or med compound slick with grooving would have been a better choice than full rains on Sunday. They would have been great on Saturday though.

However, going from dry to wet to dry is sketchy at best.

 

[CTS488]

thanks for posting this.



guess he wasn't the only one that took it as such on the "slow vs fast". and we do value the experience of the seasoned AFM racers. I hope that the conversations here and questions that are being presented are also not taken the wrong way as if we want to debate this forever.
I've personally accepted that that race is gone.

I ask my questions for future events that may have this happen.....in case it was missed, it's cause I hope to be with AFM for many many years to come.

Chris or Dave, an honest question here. Would THill's wet track, this past round, have been manageable on full race rains for you guys or slower bikes? from wet to dry, etc... I"m just curious and not doing it to stir up why we didn't race.

For me, any time on Saturday I would've rode with full wets, even Sunday morning full wets would've be fine. When the track starts to go to dry wet dry is when I see the issue. The speed bikes get out of corners like turn one when it's dry is very high, then to carry that speed into an entry of a corner that is wet seems to be my major concern. If you're going from wet corner to wet corner then the speeds more than likely won't be as high. Now if you were to be riding in full wets with the drying track and a few wet corners, bigger bikes will destroy those wets within a few laps but sure, they'd get through those wet corners fine for a few laps. The dry/wet track is a very cumbersome situation even at the highest levels of racing. IMO

 

[machete]

For me, any time on Saturday I would've rode with full wets, even Sunday morning full wets would've be fine. When the track starts to go to dry wet dry is when I see the issue. The speed bikes get out of corners like turn one when it's dry is very high, then to carry that speed into an entry of a corner that is wet seems to be my major concern. If you're going from wet corner to wet corner then the speeds more than likely won't be as high. Now if you were to be riding in full wets with the drying track and a few wet corners, bigger bikes will destroy those wets within a few laps but sure, they'd get through those wet corners fine for a few laps. The dry/wet track is a very cumbersome situation even at the highest levels of racing. IMO

thanks man. appreciate your opinion.

 

[TWF]

For me, any time on Saturday I would've rode with full wets, even Sunday morning full wets would've be fine. When the track starts to go to dry wet dry is when I see the issue. The speed bikes get out of corners like turn one when it's dry is very high, then to carry that speed into an entry of a corner that is wet seems to be my major concern. If you're going from wet corner to wet corner then the speeds more than likely won't be as high. Now if you were to be riding in full wets with the drying track and a few wet corners, bigger bikes will destroy those wets within a few laps but sure, they'd get through those wet corners fine for a few laps. The dry/wet track is a very cumbersome situation even at the highest levels of racing. IMO

Personally (assuming I would race afm ) I would race both days, in the wet and with few water spots (done both plenty times). You adjust to conditions. Problem is you need suitable tires available for either condition, if raining you need wet tires, if drying you need either intermediate or dot/slicks.
Even if afm changes policy about rain and does race in rain you will still have same bs going on, it is just matter when day like this will happen at Infenion.
It would cut down on chance to happen by 2/3 if policy is changed for t-hill and b-hole.

 

[duh_ave]

@ Rory; PM me your email address and I'll ask Aaron and/or Eric to get you access. They are usually pretty fast about it.

@ Jesus; yes, many an AFM'er has posted things they want to see, but rarely on the AFM site, nor via email or phone calls. BARF, while a great place to express oneself, DOES NOT serve as an "official" means of communication for AFM business and you know that.
As far as how much time I put in to serve your whiny wants, start paying me and you can keep talking to me like you are. Until then, follow appropriate channels or STFU.

I have NEVER heard a request for more explanative minutes from anyone. I think it's be a great idea, but it's NEVER been asked for. I'd love to see more detailed financials, but you know what, I'm hardly qualified to analyze them. Just like the contracts and insurance... people are saying"why dont you know?"... fact is, even if we did see it, are we as individuals really in the know on how to negotiate these things? Some are, sure, but most, hell no.
So it is best left to those who do know.
More oversight, ok, I'll agree. try emailing your thoughts in. I'll run with it if you will.

Thanks for the explanations Berto and Chris!

 

[LongGoneJohn]

Well put.

 

[Mjollnir]

I'm sorry if you took it as a slow vs. fast thing.....not all. It's an experience thing. Any eyeball can tell you it's dry, true. Not every eyeball can tell you if the conditions are safe enough to race motorcycles on. I'm pretty confident in my ability to realize when it's not safe and what the limits of my riding capabilities are, many inexperienced riders are not familiar because they simply have not ridden in those types of conditions before.

I agree, after riding the Rocky Mountains for years in the rain, snow, hail, gravel and ice that comes with the sudden storms there (even in summer), you do develop an eye for what's safe and what isn't. By now most of us are over the disappointment of not racing and the argument over it for that matter. Looking forward to a dry Infineon!!

 

[duh_ave]

On the subject of volunteering...
A few people have stepped up this year and helped out:
I'm sure there ares some I don't know about, but I do directly know about these guys:

Aaron Turner; web site help
Eric Snyder; web site help
Mickey Fimbres; maker of awesome paddock maps

some one had volunteered to do polls and gather info, but he flaked

4 (3 really) out of how many members?

Heck , only two show up regularly for the meetings. (Be nice to them; they'll be making the decisions next!)

So, as you can see, help will be accepted when offered.

 

[Capt Pie]

As far as the broadcasting of AFM minutes, I volunteered using my big cameras and audio equipment, and Matt from GoPro offered to bring his satellite Internet broadcasting setup for a strong, fast Internet connection last year before the 2011 season on BARF.

 

[duh_ave]

As far as the broadcasting of AFM minutes, I volunteered using my big cameras and audio equipment, and Matt from GoPro offered to bring his satellite Internet broadcasting setup for a strong, fast Internet connection last year before the 2011 season on BARF.

Thanks and no offense, but again, it doesnt work to offer it up on BARF. Send an email in to the BoD and tell them (us) what your idea is please
afm@afmracing.org
there are some parameters the club needs observed. You may find it helpful to talk with Eric Snyder as he was doing this before.

 

[Capt Pie]

Thanks and no offense, but again, it doesnt work to offer it up on BARF. Send an email in to the BoD and tell them (us) what your idea is please
afm@afmracing.org
there are some parameters the club needs observed. You may find it helpful to talk with Eric Snyder as he was doing this before.

I would think that such a large and generous offer that would normally cost quite a bit of money would be worth reaching out to. If not, no big deal. Less work on my part

 

[horsepower]

As far as the broadcasting of AFM minutes, I volunteered using my big cameras and audio equipment, and Matt from GoPro offered to bring his satellite Internet broadcasting setup for a strong, fast Internet connection last year before the 2011 season on BARF.

Any good business would be all over that offer without a second thought.
You, kind sir, are a brilliant, cutting-edged saint.
With all members watching first-hand, fully informed, the whole association could shift to a single vote on every issue and the board could then act as executors versus proxys with the President still holding veto power. Then you have only yourselves to blame when things don't go your way.
There is NOTHING like people getting to walk in the "bosses'" shoes to get why it can suck to be the boss.

 

[Holeshot]

Kevin, it totally is. I'll be in touch this week and see where we can go. I know I owe you other stuff too I'll get you the end of this week. Yours and Matt's offer is great!