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Are homo sapiens the best thing to happen to this planet? If so, will they remain so?

bikewanker said:
This because I think maybe it’s the simpletons version of what Data Dan said. We are progressing as a species much like motorcycles are progressing. Someday we might run our course or become extinct. Doubt I’ll be here :twofinger
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:laughing

I'm not sure that i could have surpassed Dans higher intellect explanation, but i knew that i could say it in a way that us simpletons cud lern...

:nerd

:teeth
 
Humans are just a blip in the scale of time. Can we last 150 million years?
 
DataDan said:
Deep question, Brett.

I don't believe planets are of any particular value to the universe. They're what happens when a heavy-element laden star explodes and its remnants mingle with others' and coagulate into a solar system--inert, inconsequential mass, neither producing nor absorbing much energy.

Life on earth, OTOH, consumes much more of my limited philosophical musing. The best thing to happen to life on this planet--that is, the one thing that enables life to continue--is evolution by natural selection. It produced multi-cell organisms, which are much more robust and flexible than single-cell. It favored sexual reproduction, which enables evolution to proceed quickly when it needs to, but also to maintain stable forms. And, it causes life to propagate in unimaginable varieties. Whatever niche exists, given enough time, evolution will find a way to fill it with living creatures.

I believe that because of evolution, some species will come to dominate. That's the way genes work. Random mutation tested against the environment will produce species that compete against each other for dominance. And those with a better "solution" to the existence problem will increase in number at the expense of those less well suited.

We are, so far, one of the dominant species on this planet. But what will happen in the next Ice Age? Global warming hysteria notwithstanding, the planet IS going to freeze again, just like it did 100,000 years ago for nearly 80,000 years. WTF do we do then? Continents will be mostly uninhabitable under a mile of glacier, then when the thaw comes, the surface will be scraped clean, ready for rehabitation by whatever species adapts most successfully. Will it be us? Apes? Gigantic cockroaches? The Borg?
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Thanks for taking the time with your response! :thumbup

Natural selection and evolution definitely plays a complex role in how different species both survives and evolves. I think there is a point where natural evolution gets suborned by different factors once we got to the point where trading began. Economic factors became a measure of fitness that took development away from purely physical fitness to other factors coming to bare. Intelligence was one factor, but cunning, beauty and other less admirable factors got into the mix. I think that natural selection has been significantly reduced in the evolution of our species and it's unclear what the net effect is.

Where will this lead? Probably more catastrophic events over time. We may or may not be in a condition to weather a major weather event like the next ice age, comet strike or other worldwide event that threatens large portions of the life on this world.

For the religious, this topic may be outside of considerations, but have you who believe in a god ever considered that earth is not the only world that god has created life on?
 
The planet was in pretty good balance, before humans began to over-populate. Insects can afford to procreate more vociferously because of their size. You couldn't have rhinoceros reproduction like ants or the planet would stop spinning. Rodents don't even over-populate, we have learned through experimentation. I feel that humans are not really good for the planet. And they destroy species left and right and may obliterate themselves along with everything else before the next ice age.
 
I don’t think we’ve yet confirmed if planets with life are rare. Terrestrial planets aren’t rare and we don’t know if any extrasolar planets have life or not.

Plants. plants are far better for this planet than any animal, esp humans.
 
One must look at the question to begin with, and the methodology of the survey sample. A biased survey with bring a biased conclusion. We're all humans. Of course we're the best! We're so best that we often don't even acknowledge that we are animals. How many times do I hear people referring to animals, like they are something separate from what we are?

The real question should be are humans smarter than bacteria?
 
Butch said:
Humans are just a blip in the scale of time. Can we last 150 million years?
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Shit, let's just see if we can survive the next 150 years first.
 
Climber said:
Planets with life on them are extremely rare.

As such, I would put forth the belief that planets with life on them have more value to the universe than those that don't.

For this planet, homo sapiens are the dominant species, but in the grand scheme of things, are we the best thing to happen to this planet?

If so, will we continue to be the best thing for this planet? If you look at it from the outside and for value, does a dominant species like us give more meaning to a planet and if we will eventually destroy most life will be still have brought the most value to it?

Just Friday musings. Anybody else have thoughts along these lines?
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But really, how do planets with life on them have more value to the universe than those that don't? Isn't that just a human construct? Does the universe care? Are we, and all life, just a happenstance random byproduct of the correct unique environmental factors that allowed for it?

I mean, I agree that I BELIEVE life is important. And I value human life. But, after all, I'm just a human being with a human brain, so I might just be a little biased. ;)
 
You have a petri dish, filled with simple microorganisms. Over the years that petri dish produces a dominant organism. Do you cherish the simple, non-evolved microorganisms, or the dominant new organism?
 
bojangle said:
But really, how do planets with life on them have more value to the universe than those that don't? Isn't that just a human construct? Does the universe care? Are we, and all life, just a happenstance random byproduct of the correct unique environmental factors that allowed for it?

I mean, I agree that I BELIEVE life is important. And I value human life. But, after all, I'm just a human being with a human brain, so I might just be a little biased. ;)
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interesting perspective. regardless of how important we think we are, or what else may exist out there in the vastness of the universe, from what we know of the building blocks of biological organisms, we are a fairly complex example. do we matter to the universe? no. are we worth including on the list of interesting phenomena? yes.
 
Maybe humans ARE the best thing to happen to the planet so far--compared to other species that might have emerged and dominated.

Let's face it: Most animals don't care much about preserving the natural environment and supporting other species. They can be hell on habitat, and other life forms, plant or animal, are basically for eating.

A few years ago, two beavers set up housekeeping on Alhambra Creek in Martinez. Fuckers then built a dam--no EIR, no Coastal Commission approval, nothing. And apparently no concern for the disruption to the environment, upstream or down. The City of Martinez went batshit crazy due to the threat of flooding in residential neighborhoods. The kind and gentle souls of the California Department of Fish and Game offered to exterminate them, but the critters somehow won a reprieve and were relocated. [DFG recently re-established its manhood by exterminating a friendly and harmless red fox beloved by a neighborhood in Arroyo Grande.]

Humans moved into the neighborhood last week on a geological time scale. In that short time we have made mistakes in treatment of the environment and other species. But--and this is a Big Thing--we recognize those problems and take action to correct them. Beavers, OTOH, aren't big on remediation.


EDIT: In case you're thinking life on earth would be much more harmonious if dolphins were in charge...
Dolphins Seem to Use Toxic Pufferfish to Get High

The dolphins were filmed gently playing with the puffer, passing it between each other for 20 to 30 minutes at a time, unlike the fish they had caught as prey which were swiftly torn apart.

Zoologist and series producer Rob Pilley said that it was the first time dolphins had been filmed behaving this way.

At one point the dolphins are seen floating just underneath the water's surface, apparently mesmerised by their own reflections.

The dolphins' expert, deliberate handling of the terrorized puffer fish, Pilley told the Daily News, implies that this is not their first time at the hallucinogenic rodeo.
​
 
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DataDan said:
Maybe humans ARE the best thing to happen to the planet so far--compared to other species that might have emerged and dominated.

Let's face it: Most animals don't care much about preserving the natural environment and supporting other species. They can be hell on habitat, and other life forms, plant or animal, are basically for eating.

A few years ago, two beavers set up housekeeping on Alhambra Creek in Martinez. Fuckers then built a dam--no EIR, no Coastal Commission approval, nothing. And apparently no concern for the disruption to the environment, upstream or down. The City of Martinez went batshit crazy due to the threat of flooding in residential neighborhoods. The kind and gentle souls of the California Department of Fish and Game offered to exterminate them, but the critters somehow won a reprieve and were relocated. [DFG recently re-established its manhood by exterminating a friendly and harmless red fox beloved by a neighborhood in Arroyo Grande.]

Humans moved into the neighborhood last week on a geological time scale. In that short time we have made mistakes in treatment of the environment and other species. But--and this is a Big Thing--we recognize those problems and take action to correct them. Beavers, OTOH, aren't big on remediation.


EDIT: In case you're thinking life on earth would be much more harmonious if dolphins were in charge...
Dolphins Seem to Use Toxic Pufferfish to Get High

The dolphins were filmed gently playing with the puffer, passing it between each other for 20 to 30 minutes at a time, unlike the fish they had caught as prey which were swiftly torn apart.

Zoologist and series producer Rob Pilley said that it was the first time dolphins had been filmed behaving this way.

At one point the dolphins are seen floating just underneath the water's surface, apparently mesmerised by their own reflections.

The dolphins' expert, deliberate handling of the terrorized puffer fish, Pilley told the Daily News, implies that this is not their first time at the hallucinogenic rodeo.
​
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I wouldn't frame it as other animals not caring about the environment. I'd say it's simply an intelligence thing. I don't believe most other animals have the capacity to be aware of such concepts.

Humans are intelligent enough to recognize the destruction we have caused, and take measures to reduce the damage. But some measures, like carbon credits, might just be weak feel good gestures. We've caused far more damage than any other animal species and we very well might not have the will to fix it before nature fixes it for us. And nature's fix will involve a mass die off, and maybe an extinction.
 
bojangle said:
I wouldn't frame it as other animals not caring about the environment. I'd say it's simply an intelligence thing. I don't believe most other animals have the capacity to be aware of such concepts.

Humans are intelligent enough to recognize the destruction we have caused, and take measures to reduce the damage. But some measures, like carbon credits, might just be weak feel good gestures. We've caused far more damage than any other animal species and we very well might not have the will to fix it before nature fixes it for us. And nature's fix will involve a mass die off, and maybe an extinction.
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I've always viewed 'carbon credits' as a way to profit from the climate change, it has never made sense as a viable solution. The ones who were pushing it were the same ones positioned to profit from it.
 
DataDan said:
Maybe humans ARE the best thing to happen to the planet so far--compared to other species that might have emerged and dominated.

Let's face it: Most animals don't care much about preserving the natural environment and supporting other species. They can be hell on habitat, and other life forms, plant or animal, are basically for eating.

A few years ago, two beavers set up housekeeping on Alhambra Creek in Martinez. Fuckers then built a dam--no EIR, no Coastal Commission approval, nothing. And apparently no concern for the disruption to the environment, upstream or down. The City of Martinez went batshit crazy due to the threat of flooding in residential neighborhoods. The kind and gentle souls of the California Department of Fish and Game offered to exterminate them, but the critters somehow won a reprieve and were relocated. [DFG recently re-established its manhood by exterminating a friendly and harmless red fox beloved by a neighborhood in Arroyo Grande.]

Humans moved into the neighborhood last week on a geological time scale. In that short time we have made mistakes in treatment of the environment and other species. But--and this is a Big Thing--we recognize those problems and take action to correct them. Beavers, OTOH, aren't big on remediation.
Click to expand...

what of the things humans have caused that cant be corrected? I cant imagine we are actually going to get the pandas and rhinos back. in comparison to causing extinction, a beaver dam is a tiny mistake. plus, beavers die and dams rot. their "mistake" might have been corrected without any intervention.
 
A good thread to promote "Sapiens." An awesome read all the way through.
 
Now that we're here though I'm not sacrificing myself for the greater good of the planet :) I do my best (compost, etc)
 
stangmx13 said:
what of the things humans have caused that cant be corrected? I cant imagine we are actually going to get the pandas and rhinos back. in comparison to causing extinction, a beaver dam is a tiny mistake. plus, beavers die and dams rot. their "mistake" might have been corrected without any intervention.
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Everything humans have done that is seen as bad can be corrected. When humans are no longer present on the planet nature will "correct" all that humans have done without intervention.

Humans have no right to exist anymore than anything else does, we only think that somehow we must survive or otherwise something is wrong and we need to fix it. Nature doesn't work that way and it is only the idea that we are separate from nature and not part of it that allows us to believe everything humans do is artificial.

If a robot using AI destroys the Rhino, yeah that would be artificial. If a human being goes out and kills one, as much as some people might despise it or say it is wrong, it is still one animal killing another. There are other animals that kill for reasons other than food or their immediate necessity.

The whole thing about something being wrong if humans through their own actions kill themselves doesn't wash. Nature doesn't predict what will happen to any species it only creates the conditions that permit evolution, we just happen to evolve where our tools, intelligence and capabilities evolves to heights greater than ants. When we can no longer maintain our existence, nature will fill the void. We can't fight that and its human arrogance to think we can.

In a few hours nature can kill hundreds of thousands of people, it has happened in the recent past. We can't do that unless we use nuclear weapons. Nature does it with a wave from an earthquake. We just think we're important as a species, we are not. To nature we are nor more or no less important than a mosquito
 
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