Are homo sapiens the best thing to happen to this planet? If so, will they remain so?

[UDRider]

I think that is a pretty safe bet. I'm not making any assumption that intelligence is valuable though.



There you go, Champ, now you're starting to catch on.

Nihilism is bullshit. Right up there with "God has a plan".

 

[Eldritch]

Nihilism is bullshit. Right up there with "God has a plan".

I wouldn't say it is that far, but it is certainly too extreme for me. Nihilism is better than Deist models, because at least they don't make up any shit.

 

[cfives]

Nihilism is just rejecting the idea that there is objective/inherent value to things or actions, IMO/understanding. It does not mean that good/bad, or right/wrong, can not be assigned to them by individuals, or groups, just that it not a universal trait that exists outside of our heads.

 

[DataDan]

Nihilism. Fuck me.

[youtube]b_29yvYpf4w[/youtube]

 

[tzrider]

Are homo sapiens the best thing to happen to this planet?

Probably not.

 

[Cycle61]

 

[Eldritch]

Nihilism is just rejecting the idea that there is objective/inherent value to things or actions, IMO/understanding. It does not mean that good/bad, or right/wrong, can not be assigned to them by individuals, or groups, just that it not a universal trait that exists outside of our heads.

What you described is the only rational aspect with which one can view existence. The Nihilist movement can be taken to further extremes that are silly, but of course there is no default moral position, and life in the universe is utterly meaningless.

Nihilism. Fuck me.

[youtube]b_29yvYpf4w[/youtube]

At least it's an ethos.

[youtube]7AEMiz6rcxc[/youtube]

 

[littlebeast]

What you described is the only rational aspect with which one can view existence. The Nihilist movement can be taken to further extremes that are silly, but of course there is no default moral position, and life in the universe is utterly meaningless.



At least it's an ethos.

[youtube]7AEMiz6rcxc[/youtube]

beg to differ. ‘existence’ is meaningless. ‘life’ as we know it, is a unique anomaly as far as we know. a rare opportunity. so the question is - do we appreciate and make the most of our brief moment in time, or do we squander it? and if this is some sort of cosmic test - do we pass, or do we fail? (biologically speaking).

 

[cfives]

beg to differ. ‘existence’ is meaningless. ‘life’ as we know it, is a unique anomaly as far as we know. a rare opportunity. so the question is - do we appreciate and make the most of our brief moment in time, or do we squander it? and if this is some sort of cosmic test - do we pass, or do we fail? (biologically speaking).

Often when people say that life is meaningless, they are saying that life was not created by an external force purposely, and with a purpose in mind for it's creations. It does not mean that purpose/meaning is unattainable, just that it is generated by the individual lifeforms, not some, "kick the can down the road", god or cosmic force for judgemental, or entertainment, purposes.

Cats, rats, trees, and bees all exist without obvious signs of having a higher purpose than merely existing (other than playing their part in the ecosystem). That does not make their their lives any more, or less, objectively meaningful than Joe six-pack couch potato, or his sister, the internationally acclaimed composer/musician, IMO.

 

[Eldritch]

beg to differ. ‘existence’ is meaningless. ‘life’ as we know it, is a unique anomaly as far as we know. a rare opportunity. so the question is - do we appreciate and make the most of our brief moment in time, or do we squander it? and if this is some sort of cosmic test - do we pass, or do we fail? (biologically speaking).

This is close to my position, I keep to that with the exception of the, “do we pass or do we fail.” I know the extreme Nihilism that UD refers to, which is the bon vivant who says all things are meaningless, therefore to believe in anything or try anything is meaningless. I agree, that model is in fact a cop out. I take the path of the true rationalist.

This means I understand life has no purpose, no meaning, and that morality is a made up construct. There is no higher purpose or better way that we all are required to participate in. In life, we all have an opportunity to realize our own potential, to be the best of ourselves that we can be. I choose to subscribe to that, but I recognize this is not an obligation to anyone else. I define honor, I have a code, I hold myself to the highest standards of excellence in just about everything that I do to the point where most people who know me enough to understand my ethical thought process (even the most subtle and trivial of actions has meaning to me) describe it as, “exhausting.”

However, as a rationalist, I understand that my search for a life of meaning and purpose infers no impact on anyone else and requires no other person to behave in any particular fashion. The world and the human race owe me nothing. I am not an entitled child, mewling that my peers are not as I am. I choose to live in a nation with a lifestyle I prefer. I work and keep company with those who fit the paradigm I prefer to the best of my ability to control my daily interactions, but none of these are things owed to me, and I largely take a position of indifference to people who choose a different path. Such is their right.

 

[Climber]

This is close to my position, I keep to that with the exception of the, “do we pass or do we fail.” I know the extreme Nihilism that UD refers to, which is the bon vivant who says all things are meaningless, therefore to believe in anything or try anything is meaningless. I agree, that model is in fact a cop out. I take the path of the true rationalist.

This means I understand life has no purpose, no meaning, and that morality is a made up construct. There is no higher purpose or better way that we all are required to participate in. In life, we all have an opportunity to realize our own potential, to be the best of ourselves that we can be. I choose to subscribe to that, but I recognize this is not an obligation to anyone else. I define honor, I have a code, I hold myself to the highest standards of excellence in just about everything that I do to the point where most people who know me enough to understand my ethical thought process (even the most subtle and trivial of actions has meaning to me) describe it as, “exhausting.”

However, as a rationalist, I understand that my search for a life of meaning and purpose infers no impact on anyone else and requires no other person to behave in any particular fashion. The world and the human race owe me nothing. I am not an entitled child, mewling that my peers are not as I am. I choose to live in a nation with a lifestyle I prefer. I work and keep company with those who fit the paradigm I prefer to the best of my ability to control my daily interactions, but none of these are things owed to me, and I largely take a position of indifference to people who choose a different path. Such is their right.

I agree with much of what you have to say.

While morality is a made up construct, the existence of a moral code is necessary to hold back chaos and a truly Darwinian society where the strong prey upon the weak with impunity.

My take on religion is that if there is a god, then he can take or leave the way I choose to live my life, I'm not going to go attend church to hear about how I should think or act. If my personal morals aren't okay for god (if they exist) then they aren't okay to me.

 

[littlebeast]

This is close to my position, I keep to that with the exception of the, “do we pass or do we fail.” I know the extreme Nihilism that UD refers to, which is the bon vivant who says all things are meaningless, therefore to believe in anything or try anything is meaningless. I agree, that model is in fact a cop out. I take the path of the true rationalist.

This means I understand life has no purpose, no meaning, and that morality is a made up construct. There is no higher purpose or better way that we all are required to participate in. In life, we all have an opportunity to realize our own potential, to be the best of ourselves that we can be. I choose to subscribe to that, but I recognize this is not an obligation to anyone else. I define honor, I have a code, I hold myself to the highest standards of excellence in just about everything that I do to the point where most people who know me enough to understand my ethical thought process (even the most subtle and trivial of actions has meaning to me) describe it as, “exhausting.”

However, as a rationalist, I understand that my search for a life of meaning and purpose infers no impact on anyone else and requires no other person to behave in any particular fashion. The world and the human race owe me nothing. I am not an entitled child, mewling that my peers are not as I am. I choose to live in a nation with a lifestyle I prefer. I work and keep company with those who fit the paradigm I prefer to the best of my ability to control my daily interactions, but none of these are things owed to me, and I largely take a position of indifference to people who choose a different path. Such is their right.

recall that i added the qualifier ‘biologically speaking’ to my ‘do we pass or do we fail’ comment. and i meant that in the context of ‘for all of our ability to examine our existence, and to control it to the extent we may, as biological organisms, do we rise to anything materially above other organisms’. yes, we have the power of self determination. but based on the choices we are able to make, and do make, can we be considered a biological success? there is plenty of evidence to the contrary (e.g. we contaminate our own environment, we wontonly kill our own kind, we behave counter to our own sustainable future, and unlike much of the natural world, we abandon our weakest members without gathering our herd, circling our collective resources and fighting to defend them).

 

[bojangle]

recall that i added the qualifier ‘biologically speaking’ to my ‘do we pass or do we fail’ comment. and i meant that in the context of ‘for all of our ability to examine our existence, and to control it to the extent we may, as biological organisms, do we rise to anything materially above other organisms’. yes, we have the power of self determination. but based on the choices we are able to make, and do make, can we be considered a biological success? there is plenty of evidence to the contrary (e.g. we contaminate our own environment, we wontonly kill our own kind, we behave counter to our own sustainable future, and unlike much of the natural world, we abandon our weakest members without gathering our herd, circling our collective resources and fighting to defend them).

Are Humans Smarter Than Bacteria?

 

[Robert R1]

recall that i added the qualifier ‘biologically speaking’ to my ‘do we pass or do we fail’ comment. and i meant that in the context of ‘for all of our ability to examine our existence, and to control it to the extent we may, as biological organisms, do we rise to anything materially above other organisms’. yes, we have the power of self determination. but based on the choices we are able to make, and do make, can we be considered a biological success? there is plenty of evidence to the contrary (e.g. we contaminate our own environment, we wontonly kill our own kind, we behave counter to our own sustainable future, and unlike much of the natural world, we abandon our weakest members without gathering our herd, circling our collective resources and fighting to defend them).

In the simplest of terms, yes we are a biological success. No other creature has dominated and decimated the competition as we have. In a non emotional context, that is the classification of victory in evolutionary terms.

We took it a step further and started augmenting evolutionary limitations since the cognitive awakening of our species. We are no longer solely dependent on natural evolution to guide us through.

We are also safer now than in any other period in history especially when we start taking population growth into account. That doesn't mean we're perfect but as a whole we do move forward even if there are extended period of contraction in between.

I shouldn't mention things like Project Gilgamesh with Schnell reading because he'll make 30 threads out of it but we're on a fast track to challenge death itself.

If we ever pull that off in combination with space travel, we will have fully transcended any restriction of natural selection and evolutionary dependencies.

 

[Eldritch]

I agree with much of what you have to say.

While morality is a made up construct, the existence of a moral code is necessary to hold back chaos and a truly Darwinian society where the strong prey upon the weak with impunity.

My take on religion is that if there is a god, then he can take or leave the way I choose to live my life, I'm not going to go attend church to hear about how I should think or act. If my personal morals aren't okay for god (if they exist) then they aren't okay to me.

"I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, and why we died. All that matters is that today, two stood against many. Valor pleases you, so grant me this one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, the HELL with you."

That's what I am talking about.

recall that i added the qualifier ‘biologically speaking’ to my ‘do we pass or do we fail’ comment. and i meant that in the context of ‘for all of our ability to examine our existence, and to control it to the extent we may, as biological organisms, do we rise to anything materially above other organisms’. yes, we have the power of self determination. but based on the choices we are able to make, and do make, can we be considered a biological success? there is plenty of evidence to the contrary (e.g. we contaminate our own environment, we wontonly kill our own kind, we behave counter to our own sustainable future, and unlike much of the natural world, we abandon our weakest members without gathering our herd, circling our collective resources and fighting to defend them).

Sure, but you are making some social assumptions there. By killing and abandoning the weak, by fighting each other for dominance, we promote the genetic profile of the strong, which is perfectly in line with Darwin’s theory and not an uncommon behavior in the animal Kingdom. Only if we did so to the point of endangering our procreation would we be acting against the biological imperative. Our species has continued to grow and thrive over the vastness of our planet to the point where our success as a life form is unquestionable. No behavior we have sustained has put our existence even slightly at risk, other than the Cold War, where nuclear annihilation was a legitimate concern. The enviro weenies want you to believe that we are on the brink, but it is a lie. The pending climate change and ocean pollution yuck probably would not result in the death of more than 20% of the Human population through environmental distress and famine, 40% tops. As that age of waste hits the species, the reduction in population would allow for environmental recovery and the monkeys would continue rutting in their eco-shelters and caves. There seems to be little question at this point that Homo Sapiens Sapiens have won the Darwin game. More than likely they will only cease to exist when they control their own evolution through genetic manipulation to make Homo Superior in whatever form/forms that will take. Humans will more than likely just die when they design their own successor.

 

[bojangle]

Humans will more than likely just die when they design their own successor.

Sexy robots?

 

[Eldritch]

Sexy robots?

Possible, but unlikely I think. The robot economy is coming, like it is practically here, but they won’t replace Humans. They are going to fux0|2 our understanding of economics and how resources need to be distributed, but the Grand Monkey will still be throwing poo from his throne on top of the earth. Gene editing is the real future. While farther out than the Robot Economy, we are not super far from designing custom alterations to Homo Sapiens, born and designed to be better than we ever were. It is a countdown to the birth of Homo Superior, something that is the next step in evolution that didn’t happen as a matter of chance like most, but designed with intent to be better, smarter, stronger, faster, more durable, more efficient, more advanced than Homo Sapiens ever were.
Like I said, I will be surprised if this species lasts another 1,000 years, which will be here very soon in the grand scheme of things.