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Brain Cooling Helmet Technology

Enchanter said:
And what % of those with brain swelling would have been better off with cooling of the skull? The temperature drop is going to have to be quick, and substantial for this to work. In other words, the portion of the helmet in contact with the riders head is going to have to get very cold, very quickly to be able have a viable effect on the inner temperature of the riders skull and brain housing group. I'd be concerned with it being so cold that it would cause tissue damage.

Yeah, I'll pass on the preemptive self diagnosis and self treatment of the potential injuries I may possibly experience someday.
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Enchanter said:
Would you mind explaining what medical training that you have had? I mean, "some medical training" could be just 1st aid / CPR classes.

I'm not disputing that a reduction in temperature of blood/body organs can be useful in some injuries. It is a proven treatment when done properly (by professionals). My issues are that a) on a helmet, it essentially self treatment, and b) I question the efficiency of applying cooling to the outside of the head/skull for the treatment of brain swelling. Your first link is about infants. It is not about brain swelling due to a blunt force injury. The treatment also takes place over a 72hr period. It also mentions that the long term effects are unknown, Apples to oranges. Your second link does show more rapid cooling techniques but they are talking about heart attack and stroke victims. Oranges to apples.
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Enchanter said:
I got involved in this thread because of the marketing claims made by the manufacturer of the helmet. They are attempting to inspire people to buy their helmet by planting a little bit of fear into the heads (no pun intended) of the readers.
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I dont see you mentioning anything regarding marketing in any of your diatribes, sorry
 
Yakoo752 said:
successfully?
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Depends on your definition. Are cases won? Sometimes. Do the manufacturers settle out of court for large sums of $? All the time. The original founder/owner of Simpson helmets sold his company due to the $ lost to pre-trial settlements.
 
Enchanter said:
Depends on your definition. Are cases won? Sometimes. Do the manufacturers settle out of court for large sums of $? All the time. The original founder/owner of Simpson helmets sold his company due to the $ lost to pre-trial settlements.
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After asking I looked and yes several companies refuse to sell in the US because of this
 
Yakoo752 said:
I dont see you mentioning anything regarding marketing in any of your diatribes, sorry
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Diatribes? Really?

Let me rephrase:
I initially replied to this thread due to the wording of the marketing. Further replies were made to other areas of interest regarding this helmet.

Basically you've gone to great extent to say your opinion was better than mine. I've shared my thoughts. I've got a pretty good idea of what it takes to bring a medical device to market, and while it would be quite a stretch to call this helmet a medical device, I also see the company making an attempt at creating the need for their product.

I'm not questioning the fact that thermal treatment has shown to be effective in some forms of brain injury. I'm questioning the implication that it has been, or will be effective in treating brain injury caused my motorcycle accidents. I don't see any real data at this time.
 
diatribes was a bit harsh ;) and I hope you don't take it/me personally

and yes I have gone to extents to not disagree with your thoughts but to provide evidence that this is plausible. I also do not think that this should be considered a medical device.

So much gets misconstrued from lack of "cross-conversation". I have worked in the medical research process and know what it takes to get an idea off the ground and into the market (interned at fred hutchinson 3 1/2 years ago while I was studying Molecular Biology under Dr. Laszlo.) So when people instantly discredit something on their "beliefs" it does frustrate me.

Let me reiterate, I do not know if this product will work in it's intended manner, but the helmet's safety aspect is equal to others and the price is equal as well. So in theory they have nothing to gain that a similar helmet manufacturer does, plus they add a potential next step to life saving efforts. Which if effective will create the next new industry standard. I'm just not one to instantly discredit based on my personal knowledge of the topic.
 
Yakoo752 said:
Let me reiterate, I do not know if this product will work in it's intended manner, but the helmet's safety aspect is equal to others and the price is equal as well. So in theory they have nothing to gain that a similar helmet manufacturer does, plus they add a potential next step to life saving efforts. Which if effective will create the next new industry standard. I'm just not one to instantly discredit based on my personal knowledge of the topic.
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I don't see anything about selling complete helmets at the same cost as that same helmet without their technology. I only see a retrofit service that is presumably at some cost to the customer.

Look, I have no issue with shipping untested stuff to informed consumers. We do it all the time at work.. it's called JDA (joint development agreements) or beta sites, or evals. But it's always either free (if there's no evidence to prove it does what we hope it will do), or at cost (no profit) if we have some evidence but not enough to completely productize it. This is how you gather enough data to prove that your product does what you say it does if you can't do it in a laboratory setting. You inform customers of what you think it does, what the potential risks are, and that you expect them to provide you with feedback and data in exchange for a free or at-cost product. You don't conjure up some scary stories and leverage unrelated research to sell them a "product".
 
it's in one of their press release that the cost will 150 gbp more of an similar helmet but that's the cost of the impact camera and the bluetooth and led indication of head injury and some other stuff. So I don't know what the exact price point in. similar helmet like an arai or shoei or similar like a scorpion (price relation is what I was going for here) because I have a scorpion I paid $100 for and an arai I paid $600 for?

what is neat is they have front and rear cameras that constantly record/overwrite themselves and once crashed stops recording so the previous 60 seconds is all on tape.

and these aren't for sale yet, so maybe they are in this JDA process as we speak :dunno and it shows much promise which is why they are marketing how they are? :dunno again, I'm not the first to discredit and I tend to wait for the market to dictate a product before I purchase it anyway
 
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Yakoo752 said:
paging lovedoc as to your expertise if brain swelling reacts to ice similar to muscle tissue?
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Just read the thread sorry. Thought it would be about a NASCAR drivers helmet. Cooling the brain down a 4 or 5 degrees C for 24hrs has been shown to improve recovery from brain injury in some studies. You have to cool the whole body though. In this study, they found that the rectal temp predicted the brain temp pretty closely, so obviously they were cooling the whole body. The brain gets about 24 oz of blood per minute, so obviously some little icey bag is going to do little no matter where applied.

Brain cooling article

torrey.smith said:
I should have posted sooner.

I used to work for a Therapeutic Hypothermia company.

The concept is sound, but cooling the brain via the head is very difficult.

The reason is that the hot blood flowing into the brain from the body has the dominant thermal effect.

In terms of testing, your inner ear temperature is a good approximation of your brain temperature.
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Thanks, just repeated whut you said

As far as sueing and shit, if they don't claim it is a medical device, they can pretty much say anything about it. If they try to claim it is, the FDA will skin them alive.
 
Freeze your brain during impact----New Helmet Design

http://www.mensjournal.com/thermahelm

http://www.thermahelm.com/

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cooling_helmet_full.jpg


The brilliance behind ThermaHelm’s design is it’s simplicity: Upon impact, the helmet triggers a chemical reaction that cool’s the rider’s head, reducing swelling. Motorcyclists with head injuries are at serious risk of death — a danger only hastened by a helmet that acts like oven insulation. ThermaHelm buys precious time in the race against blood rushing to the brain. To boot, its sleek look will help you keep your Steve McQueen-coolheadedness at all times. Buy a helmet from them, or send yours in and have it retro-fitted with the life-saving technology in a matter of days ($475; thermahelm.com).
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Evidence?

Cooling effect on swelling and brain injuries is pretty well documented phenomena.

Now, are you likely to seriously injure your brain when you go down? Who knows.
 
Marlowe said:
Evidence?

Cooling effect on swelling and brain injuries is pretty well documented phenomena.

Now, are you likely to seriously injure your brain when you go down? Who knows.
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Not what I meant. I meant evidence of this thing cooling your brain to a point where it makes a difference.
 
Screw that, I'mma just stuff Otterpops in my Shoei from now on.

:x
 
TheRiddler said:
Not what I meant. I meant evidence of this thing cooling your brain to a point where it makes a difference.
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It actually only takes a few degrees. They aren't trying to freeze it, just keep the swelling down.

I buy that it works, just fine, but you'd need to have one of these things, and have some sort of brain injury accident, survive it, and get transported out of there in time.

I'm sure it'll save a few lives but I'm not sure it's significant.
 
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