broken bolt extractor...help!

[banyan]

Ok guys...
now forgive me...I've had stuck bolts before and always did my best not to make things any worse...but it looks like in this case I've definitely buggered things up a bit.

Case in point:
'01 RSV Mille R engine oil drain plug number 2. This one sits higher up than the base of the oil pan (where the first oil drain plug is)but its still recommended to drain them both. Mine was installed by a gorilla. It was a 6mm hex head bolt which wouldn't budge so I hammered in a T-style screw extractor, and, as you can see from the photo, snapped the screw extractor.

Now what?

one of these maybe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkIH7DhQJzA

The engine has been drained of (most of its) oil, so filling it with oil to run it and warm it would definitely throw away a few litres of oil. Because I've clearly made things worse I'm tempted to take it to a machinist, but I'm this far in and I want to learn more about stuck/stripped screw/bolt extraction.

I'm told screw extractors are made out of unubtainium and are therefore hard to drill out...and the whole dremel off the head, score a flathead slot and use a screwdriver idea seems comical since it's obvious torque didn't do the job, so I can't imagine a screwdriver saving the day.

So...Help?

 

[rob linders]

I would try and remove the extractor with vise grips. Try tapping it from various sides with a punch or screwdriver to loosen it up and it should come out.

 

[O.T.]

Needle nose vice grips clockwise on the extractor then use them counterclockwise on the plug.

 

[Arsey]

I would try and remove the extractor with vise grips. Try tapping it from various sides with a punch or screwdriver to loosen it up and it should come out.

+1

If it comes to using the punch, the brittle material of the extractor might shatter flush with the bolt head. At that point you can use a small center punch to shatter the rest out. It'll go slow, but you can chip it out bit by bit.

Even if you get the broken extractor out you'll still need to do something to get the plug out. It must be gutentight if you broke the extractor from torque only, and not from side loading it.

If it were me, I would weld a bolt onto the head of the plug, and then use a wrench or socket to get it out. The heat of the weld will usually help loosen it up, and it'll come out without issue.

 

[dravnx]

Heat the bolt and extractor with a heat gun. You might have to run it for 1/2 an hour or more. Then hit the extractor with some freeze spray. I've had stuck parts fall out with this method.

 

[msethhunter]

It's really brittle. Smack it with a hammer and it'll probably shatter.

 

[davbib]

Soak it with some PB Blaster and let it sit for a bit, then heat it up and try again.

 

[RickM]

Wear safety glasses before hitting the extractor.

 

[channelcat]

use a vise grip, and liquid wrench. tap lightly, and often, so the oil soaks into the threads.
you fucked up going too hard. now go slow. this could take days. you spin that extractor in the drain
plug hole, things got a whole lot more difficult. so tap tap lube lube love it like a bear loves easter honey.

 

[rollem]

I would try and remove the extractor with vise grips. Try tapping it from various sides with a punch or screwdriver to loosen it up and it should come out.

+2

 

[louemc]

Wear safety glasses before hitting the extractor.

What RickM said, and real safety glasses (Goggles over them, even).

A chip of metal flying, hitting your cheek, ricochet to inner (back side) of glasses, ricochet into eyeball...Is very possible.
(I'm a machinist, I know this shit)

And I must confess, what I see in the picture, says I don't know what I'm looking at...Cause the biting edges on that extractor are going the wrong direction, to turn a screw, lefty loose.

They are facing Righty-Tighty. (which explains the Snappy- Breaky).

 

[rob linders]

And I must confess, what I see in the picture, says I don't know what I'm looking at...Cause the biting edges on that extractor are going the wrong direction, to turn a screw, lefty loose.

They are facing Righty-Tighty. (which explains the Snappy- Breaky).

I didn't pay attention before, but I agree it looks that way.

 

[ALANRIDER7]

use a vise grip, and liquid wrench. tap lightly, and often, so the oil soaks into the threads.
you fucked up going too hard. now go slow. this could take days. you spin that extractor in the drain
plug hole, things got a whole lot more difficult. so tap tap lube lube love it like a bear loves easter honey.

If the drain plug keeps oil from leaking out, it certainly won't allow any penetrant in.

This job requires some finesse and a two step approach. First, using the right technique to remove the broken extractor and then the right technique to remove the frozen drain plug. I would suggest you have someone with the right experience help you to do this in order to prevent any further damage, as engine cases can be rather fragile. Order a new drain plug and crush washer and use never seize when installing it to the proper torque value.

 

[quicksparks]

If the wisdom tooth extraction methods don't work you might resort to Tap-out (nitric acid). Build a well around the area with modeling clay and pour the acid in. It dissolves iron but leaves aluminum alone. Careful with it though!

 

[zoomsplat]

Forget about the broken bits, use a small punch to turn the bolt, and then replace it like Alan said. You may wish to have someone who knows what they're doing looking over your shoulder.

 

[MikeyRocks]

I had something similar happen to me a while back, I was able to extract it by heating it with a micro soldering torch and vice grips.

 

[JimE]

So far the only tried and true method I have used to get a broken extractor out of the hole has been to shatter it out with a punch and pick the pieces out. Just like others have said here.....

 

[JJ_08]

Restoring a '72 CB350 that had been buried in mud for 20 years forced me to deal with more than my fair share of stuck bolts. From that experience, I learned one thing:

Bolt extractors are evil. Pure evil.

I actually tossed out my entire collection of EZ Outs because they caused me nothing but heartache.

OK, sorry, tirade over. I just hate the darn things.


Back to the original question: if I were in your shoes, I would take the bike to a machinist and have it professionally removed. I've tried various methods of removing broken extractors, and all of them have caused more damage. 1 hour of a machinist's time will cost you around $80. Compare that to the cost of a potentially hosed Mille R engine case.

Based on my personal experience of attempting to remove various EZ Outs from heads, engine cases, etc., chances are high that you'll bugger up the threads trying to do home dentistry, which will cost more than an hour of a machinist's time in the end.

If you try to shatter the extractor with a punch, you run the risk of driving it in further if it doesn't break. It'll also swell the bolt you were trying to get out in the first place. Tapping it from the side is probably your best bet if you attempt to do it yourself.

FYI: in my humble opinion, bolt extractors should only be used on bolts which are loose enough to remove with hand tools, but happen to have a rounded, missing, or stripped head (ie, can't get a wrench or screwdriver on it). If you wouldn't be able to remove the bolt without an extractor, it will most likely shear the extractor since the hardened steel is much less ductile than the metal of most bolts.

 

[Ironbutt]

Oh.. I wouldn't touch that extractor.

Attack the drain plug with a small pin point chisel and make it turn out. The Hammering usually gets it. I'd heat the surrounding area too just to be sure.

Extractors are the very very last resort for me. And I mean 'the' last resort.

Nothing more embarrassing than being bailed out from a broken extractor, the second time. We should know better by now.



C

 

[JJ_08]

Oh.. I wouldn't touch that extractor.

Attack the drain plug with a small pin point chisel and make it turn out. The Hammering usually gets it. I'd heat the surrounding area too just to be sure.

Excellent advice!

Ironbutt is completely right: forget about the extractor! Just get the drain plug out and replace it.

When there is something left of the head of the bolt, I really like the chisel-and-hammer approach. Something about the hammering action and mechanical advantage of hitting the circumference of the fastener seems to be really effective. As always, presoaking with a penetrant such as PB'laster will go a long way.