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Can Costco search a person's bag?

Razel said:
If he works at a public school?
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I dunno, that's more complicated.

If it was a felony at a private company, I'd be in trouble...

Sunnyvale Rod and Gun Club is open late on Tuesday nights.
 
Oh horse shit. I've seen so many renta-cops and loss protection "officers" go way above and beyond what is reasonable, legal, or both. They don't know and/or don't care where the limit is. Their general mind set seems to be that the company will cover their ass when the shit hits the fan. The fat guy into a blue shirt and cargo pants with a tin badge taped to his chest and a McDonalds ear piece who didn't make it to police academy is trying to get his rocks off by acting like the store has a "right" to search people's bags or detain them.

Frankly, it's crap and it's why people get so upset over having wait in yet another line for some slob to rummage through their shit to ensure everything was properly rung up.

imaverb said:
That is 100% how LP works. (Police operate this way a lot too.) They won't step outside their boundaries, but since most people don't know specifically what those boundaries are, they can pressure/trick you into giving up your own rights.
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If you're a member, you get two choices:
* refuse search, *walk out*, have your membership revoked if they manage to figure out who you are
* allow search

If you're not a member:
* refuse search & just walk right out ignoring them
* allow search

In either case if they physically detain you / prevent you from leaving & they can't prove that you were stealing something (without having searched your bag), you just got yourself handed several thousand dollars of auto-win lawsuit for unlawful detainment, infliction of emotional distress, kidnapping, etc, that would make lots of lawyers salivate.

The mistake the OP's quoted person made was not *walking out* and standing there arguing with the LP people about whether they could see her bag or not. Just say "nope, bye" and leave.

Amazing how powerful the social authority thing can be though, eh?
 
motorman4life said:

No doubt, this may raise more questions than it answered. No PM's please. Ask questions in the thread. But first, please read the article below as well as the CA Penal Code sections referenced above.
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Read the penal code and the linked article, got another question. All the sections about resisting arrest pertained to when you are arrested by an LEO. What happens during a citizen's arrest; are you legally obligated to allow yourself to be detained? I know the person making the arrest must call the cops ASAP, but does the arrested suspect have to remain in their custody? If they try to forcefully detain you, are you allowed to fight back (within reason of course) and try to escape?
 
What I read mentioned you can be detained a "reasonable amount of time". I'm sure it's purposely vague to allow for contingencies, like waiting for the LEO to arrive. I don't understand if they can force you back into the store once they stop you outside and declare you're being placed under arrest.
 
It depends on if the arrest is lawful. If it is, you have to submit peacefully. Because being tackled by a security guard on a sidewalk isn't exactly the time to hash out the finer points of whether the citizen's arrest is lawful, the best option is probably to remain on scene and demand the police be called. If the arrest is lawful and you fight back, you could be find yourself in trouble. If the arrest is not lawful, the store could be faced with trouble.




bertocci said:
Read the penal code and the linked article, got another question. All the sections about resisting arrest pertained to when you are arrested by an LEO. What happens during a citizen's arrest; are you legally obligated to allow yourself to be detained? I know the person making the arrest must call the cops ASAP, but does the arrested suspect have to remain in their custody? If they try to forcefully detain you, are you allowed to fight back (within reason of course) and try to escape?
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A bit off topic, but I once witnessed an older couple being "detained" at Costco. They were in line to leave the store when an employee came up and said to the woman, Excuse me, ma'am. But you were seen opening up a bag of chocolate chips, eating some of the chips and then putting the bag of chips in with the other bags of chips. We'd like you to come back and pay for that bag of chips you opened.

And yes, she did.
 
I carry a gun.

If a store employee attempted to get physical with me I would draw my weapon and call the police.

There is a lot of case law in CA, if I recall correctly, disallowing detention by LP at stores unless you sign a membership agreement. It has been a few years since
I have perused lexis or westlaw, so my memory is fuzzy.

The best policy is to say no thanks.

If they continue to bother you, call 911 and explain the situation, get a police man there. Get a police report. Use your civil remedies afterward.
 
I carry a gun, too. (Into Costco past its "No firearms" sign.) If a store employee attempted to get physical with me I would pepper spray him/her. Drawing the gun is for shooting it. Shooting is for a real threat. Maybe there are some places where you could get away with brandishing your roscoe like that, but a Costco in CA isn't one of them.

Bottom line is nobody can search you or detain you unless A) you submit and let them do it, or B) they beat you into submission and they do it while you are handcuffed and/or unconscious.
 
Sounds like you guys are likely to get arrested should store staff contact you. 417 and 244 respectively.
 
wackyiraqi said:
Are those Montana and Nevada penal codes, respectively?

Also, I carry a chainsaw. If a store employee approached me I would totally saw off his head.
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Umm, yeah. Since this is the *BAY AREA* Rider's Forum I routinely post Nevada and Montana law.
 
FRY's is the worst with this nonsense. I just breeze right by them - "Hell no you can't make me show my receipt".

Sometimes the people will come up with some jibe response:

"We just want to make sure you weren't overcharged."

"Awwww. . .dont be silly - I trust you guys!"
 
I remember reading about the Fry's "Walk of Shame" a few years ago. Once you have paid for an item at the cash register, it is yours, and Fry's has no right to inspect it agin.

I'll comply unless there is a line in which case I usually walk past and say "No Thanks" as if they're trying to give me Jesus pamphlets.
 
wackyiraqi said:
I understand that, *THANKS*.

You were responding to Meter Man and 2strokeYardSale--FYI, they're not in California.
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Ahh...now I understand. I didn't even know where the High Mountain Valley is. *SORRY*:blush
 
Meter Man and 2strokeYardSale laws may be different in Nevada but in California they CAN legally detain you if they saw you steal of conceal something. As soon as they try and detain you and you pull a gun or pepper spray it now becomes 211 PC- armed robbery. In California you will do time for that.

213. (a) Robbery is punishable as follows:
(1) Robbery of the first degree is punishable as follows:
(A) If the defendant, voluntarily acting in concert with two or
more other persons, commits the robbery within an inhabited dwelling
house, a vessel as defined in Section 21 of the Harbors and
Navigation Code, which is inhabited and designed for habitation, an
inhabited floating home as defined in subdivision (d) of Section
18075.55 of the Health and Safety Code, a trailer coach as defined in
the Vehicle Code, which is inhabited, or the inhabited portion of
any other building, by imprisonment in the state prison for three,
six, or nine years.
(B) In all cases other than that specified in subparagraph (A), by
imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or six years.
(2) Robbery of the second degree is punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison for two, three, or five years.
(b) Notwithstanding Section 664, attempted robbery in violation of
paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) is punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison.
 
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JPM: presuming the person has a CCW permit (I know, hard to get in most of CA) what happens if they thought they saw you take something and you didn't?

I'm also assuming you meant detain as opposed to detail
 
Junkie said:
JPM: presuming the person has a CCW permit (I know, hard to get in most of CA) what happens if they thought they saw you take something and you didn't?

I'm also assuming you meant detain as opposed to detail
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Dang, sorry 'bout that. I fixed it. The shoplifting laws here are pretty clear; they have to see you do it. However it’s not uncommon for suspects to dump the item while being chased by security making it a "Your word against theirs" case. But most stores have cameras and have the theft on tape and then it’s easy to substantiate. If they are not sure they will not push the issue.

It does not matter if you have a CCW permit, you can't use it to break the law or in a crime. If I try to detain you for something and you pull a gun on me, legally carried or not, you are going to get shot. If you survive you will be charged with using the gun and have gun enhancements on your sentence.

And I forgot to mention in the 211 PC section I posted above; if a firearm is used there are enhancements for more prison time, up to 15 more years.
.
 
saizai said:
If you're a member, you get two choices:
* refuse search, *walk out*, have your membership revoked if they manage to figure out who you are
* allow search

If you're not a member:
* refuse search & just walk right out ignoring them
* allow search

In either case if they physically detain you / prevent you from leaving & they can't prove that you were stealing something (without having searched your bag), you just got yourself handed several thousand dollars of auto-win lawsuit for unlawful detainment, infliction of emotional distress, kidnapping, etc, that would make lots of lawyers salivate.
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This is not entirely true. Again, we are talking about a membership store, such as Costco. If you refuse and just walk right out, they could conceivably place you under citizen's arrest for interfering with their business. It is part of their policy to check receipts and it is a part of the membership agreement to consent to the "detention" and "search." This is not the case at Fry's or Kmart.

As a Costco member, If you refuse to abide by the agreement, they could revoke your membership on the spot and go so far as to refuse to allow you (as a non-member) to leave the premises with the member's-only merchandise, demanding that you allow them to process a refund and terminate your membership or surrender the merchandise and/or THEIR membership card.

I could easily see them winning a lawsuit for use of force in a case where someone refused to surrender the membership card after violating the member agreement and then unnecessarily escalating the confrontation to a use-of-force situation. In most (if not all cases) you are only going to encounter a level of force that is equal to or slightly above the resistance or force you offer.

OTOH, if you are not a member, you would not be allowed to make a purchase (in theory) and would be trespassing. If you could or would not produce a membership card on demand, they would have reasonable cause to believe you are trespassing and could place you under citizen's arrest for same. If push came to shove, so to speak ;)

Sticky stuff. But in any case, if I were an ambulance-chasing lawyer, it is certainly not the type of case I would be drawn to.
 
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