Caught a guy throwing his bike away

[Archimedes]

Are the ones advocating not using the rear brakes, the ones who can't use the rear brakes despite all their "experience" and/or "skill".

didn't doohan put the rear brake on a thumb lever cuz his foot was hurt?

Don't moto gp bikes have rear brakes? Aren't they the ones almost always in a situation where panic can set in?

Yeah, and they use them primarily for keeping the front wheel on the ground COMING OUT of turns, not slowing the bike going into turns.

 

[Archimedes]

Well, if you're going 65mph in a corner on a tight backroad where the speed limit is 30mph, no amount of rear brake can save you, and you'll be lucky to be able to use the front brake. But if you're going 65mph through a sweeper where the posted speed limit is something like 50mph, then I absolutely think that would leave plenty of room to use both brakes to effectively avoid a hazard.

Nahh. I'd use the front brake while still upright, transition to lean just before the sand and then just focus on turning the bike with a steady throttle. That's your only chance in that situation. Either brake or a ham fist while leaned over on sand is an immediate trip to the ground. I'd still stay off the rear brake entering the turn.

And for those who say what about parking lot maneuvers, sure you can use your rear brake there if you want, but why? Why would you choose the weaker, less effective, less feel option of your two braking choices?

The only really effective use of the rear brake in a pressure situation is very smooth application, perfectly in tandem with the front brake and the suspension, where you improve the stopping ability over that which only front brakes would afford you. THAT is something very, very few riders can do well. And certainly not noobs. Which, if you read my original post that started this tangent, was my target. Noobs. Keep your feet off the rear brake in pressure situations. It is not your friend. See video in first post of this thread.

 

[rexington]

And for those who say what about parking lot maneuvers, sure you can use your rear brake there if you want, but why? Why would you choose the weaker, less effective, less feel option of your two braking choices?

I prefer the rear brake in slow, tight maneuvering because it gives me more control. The front brake f**'s up these types of turns.

 

[wstick1]

I choose the rear brake in slow tight turns because it is the weaker, less effective brake. You are already going slow, so it doesn't take much brake and the bike is going to be on it's side. Another good reason to use the rear in a slow tight turn is this: Using the rear brake allows you to keep your hand around the throttle, giving you better throttle control.

Why would you want to try to control everything with one hand when you've got a foot down there not doin a damn thing???

As for feel, if you can't feel your rear brake, it might be time for a fluid change, pad change, or both.

 

[rexington]

I choose the rear brake in slow tight turns because it is the weaker, less effective brake. You are already going slow, so it doesn't take much brake and the bike is going to be on it's side. Another good reason to use the rear in a slow tight turn is this: Using the rear brake allows you to keep your hand around the throttle, giving you better throttle control.

Why would you want to try to control everything with one hand when you've got a foot down there not doin a damn thing???

As for feel, if you can't feel your rear brake, it might be time for a fluid change, pad change, or both.

Amen.

 

[RhythmRider]

I had an emergency brake situation approaching a tight corner today. I heavily used the front brake and the rear brake simultaneously with all my weight forward on the bike, and at that point I could feel that the rear was very close to locking up, so I released pressure on it, and continued braking with the front. I didn't have any issue making the turn, and I never lost traction with the rear. I could feel the rear wheel getting close to a slide even though it's actuated by a foot lever, and I was able to slow down with less front brake pressure than if I hadn't used the rear brake at all.

 

[iriedogg420]

Yeah, and they use them primarily for keeping the front wheel on the ground COMING OUT of turns, not slowing the bike going into turns.

So that's how Rossi, Biaggi and Hayden keep the the front wheel down...by using the rear brake, all this time I thought they used throttle control.

wonder how affects their drive out of a corner? hard, smooth throttle coupled w/ rear brake.

So, a bike has 2 brakes, say 90% of stopping power comes from the front, the rest w/ the rear. Is it not a logical choice to use 100% of the bikes stopping power rather than 90%?

 

[t.tinyo]

He should stick to posing cause he cant ride if his or other riders life depended on it!

 

[Enchanter]

Yeah, and they use them primarily for keeping the front wheel on the ground COMING OUT of turns, not slowing the bike going into turns.

How do they occasionally back it in if they aren't using the rear brake?

So that's how Rossi, Biaggi and Hayden keep the the front wheel down...by using the rear brake, all this time I thought they used throttle control.

I agree that it's throttle control, but on the current MotoGP bikes the question is who or what is controlling the throttle on corner exit? I'd wager that the rider is twisting it on, and the ECU/TC is rolling it off a bit.

 

[RhythmRider]

The MotoGP riders use the rear brake a lot. You can watch a rider's right foot as he enters a corner and see him lift off the brake as he reaches max lean or runs out of clearance depending on which way he's turning.

 

[Lester Green]

How do they occasionally back it in if they aren't using the rear brake?

Engine braking, from dropping down a gear or two...using rear brake is cheating.

 

[shraz]

maybe he went off the road inside for a second, and coming back on the road caused major problems.

 

[Eric in Davis]

Lucky *you* didn't crash/take someone out.

 

[Lazerus]

Right... luck. Tell yah what chief... watch the video again. Notice how loud that hyper motard sounds on the audio. Then notice the lack of that sound during the uturn, then notice that it was the next vehicle to approach, then notice how many seconds it took him to overtake me given his pace vs mine, then withdraw your attempt at making me look dumb

Suppose you could also factor in the time it took the oncoming rider to close the distance from the blind corner to the postion where I made the uturn, and then contrast that with the amount of time I would have been in the "danger zone" portion of that uturn. Oh, and I checked my mirrors frequently during and immediately there after, which is how I spotted the rider, and moved out of his way.

I know it's not msf proceedure, but being the one in the saddle, it also didn't put anyone at greater risk than acceptable, or warrant a freeze frame and verbage for that matter. If anything, I figure you would pick on the REAL spooky squidish dangerous wheelie blind corner stuff later in the vid

I had a similar thought to Lester regarding the reaction of the oncoming rider. Guess he was a kinder person than I am. I am pretty sure I would have blown my top, especially with the passenger on my bike.

The tar snakes were the second in a long series of factors leading up to this crash. These really are unlike any other tarsnakes I have ridden over before. Feels about like riding over a garden hose that is slathered in ky jelly.... get your mind out of the gutter Really though, i think he may have negotiated the rest of the turn if his bike hand't been unsettled by the snakes due to his poor line of entry. I used to have a similar problem... everytime the bike would become unsettled in a turn, i would be affraid of giving it any additional inputs, kinda freeze up and hold my line

 

[Eric in Davis]

No thanks, I stand by what I posted. You made an illegal U-turn crossing the double yellow in front of a blind turn on a road that had heavy motorcycle traffic (you, plus your friend, plus the motard, plus the other 2 bikes all in the same 1/4 mile stretch basically at the same time). What if that motard had been 3 seconds behind your friend instead of 20 seconds? I just find it funny that you would judge someone for their bad riding while your video shows you making a dubious U-turn.

 

[Lazerus]

Difference between me and him, my bike is still in one piece Been that way for my "whopping" 50k behind the bars. Blind turn was a good 70+ yards away minimum, although in the camera it appears closer. That instance comprised about 1/3 of ALL the vehicles we saw the entire day. If he had been 3 seconds behind my buddy, he would have passed me before I made my "dubious" uturn. Oh well, knit pickers will knit pick. We should ride together sometime. I get complements on my safe habits from everyone I have ever done so with

 

[66nick]

The only really effective use of the rear brake in a pressure situation is very smooth application, perfectly in tandem with the front brake and the suspension, where you improve the stopping ability over that which only front brakes would afford you. THAT is something very, very few riders can do well. And certainly not noobs. Which, if you read my original post that started this tangent, was my target. Noobs. Keep your feet off the rear brake in pressure situations. It is not your friend. See video in first post of this thread.

Why not train yourself to use the rear brake properly from the get go, as you are learning to ride a motorcycle.... Develop your skills evenly...
Its a mind boggling idea, I know

 

[Lazerus]

So, a bike has 2 brakes, say 90% of stopping power comes from the front, the rest w/ the rear. Is it not a logical choice to use 100% of the bikes stopping power rather than 90%?

I think the reason that most people abandon the rear is because it may take up more than 20% of your alotted braking consentration to use to its fullest potential, which would only give you 80% to use on the brake that (by your ratio) does 90% of the work. Since attention is a finite thing, I would rather give my entire braking focus to the work horse, so that I stand the best chance of using it to its fullest potential, and maybe have some spare attenion for things like reference points. By dividing up attention, the chance for error increases... atleast for mortals like me

 

[gsxrguy11]

Tar snake had nothing to do with it. Your last sentence hit the nail on the head. I had to laugh at the guy in the video saying "gotta love those tar snakes", thinking he was being a smart ass. Hopefully the guy who crashed realizes it wasn't the tar snake, but rather his poor motorcycle control skills that caused him to crash. Nothing worse than riders not taking responsibility for their mishaps. What really would have been funny is if he would of said "Dude, it's called backing it IN, not backing it OUT."

The "guy" in the video wasn't being a smart ass. The tar snakes on that road were no joke. Those were the most fuked up tar snakes i had every been on. I was up on that same road last monday and they weren't any where close to where they were when we were up there over the weekend. As already stated by others the tar snakes were just among the many reasons this guy went down.

 

[gsxrguy11]

No thanks, I stand by what I posted. You made an illegal U-turn crossing the double yellow in front of a blind turn on a road that had heavy motorcycle traffic (you, plus your friend, plus the motard, plus the other 2 bikes all in the same 1/4 mile stretch basically at the same time). What if that motard had been 3 seconds behind your friend instead of 20 seconds? I just find it funny that you would judge someone for their bad riding while your video shows you making a dubious U-turn.

There was plenty on distance between the u turn and the blind corner. If it wasn't safe he wouldn't have made the turn. I am that friend and i never made a U turn so i am not sure where you are drawing the conclusion that i made a illegal u turn.

So since making a u turn is so bad, make sure next time you are riding with someone that IF you happen to double back to check on a friend or another rider (which i highly doubt you would) remember you need to see for 10 miles in either direction so that it is safe to do a forbidden U turn.