Crossing double yellow, on HWY 1

[Marcoose]

However, one instance doesn't equal "ppl commit suicide all the time off hwy 1," just as a rider passing in the same line as an oncoming rider (or any vehicle) doesn't equal "normal."

Ha! When did exaggeration ever stop a good barfing?

 

[dravnx]

Ha! When did exaggeration ever stop a good barfing?

It's happened a million times.

 

[ilikefood]

I'm surprised... well, not surprised, but rather troubled or perhaps disgusted, or both, by the justification of the other rider's behavior. To be clear, I'm not talking about passing on the double yellow—the effects of that are a different discussion. Nor am I talking about the circumstances of the pass—uphill, or whatever.

The kind of "thinking" that says it's ok to pass in the same lane as an oncoming vehicle, whether that vehicle is a car, motorcycle, or even bicycle, is why society hates us, and why we keep killing ourselves.

That was a fucking stupid pass, plain and simple. If I was the OP, I'd have had words with the other rider, at minimum.

Ha. You'd have a fit driving or riding in Europe or pretty much anywhere outside of the US. Cars, buses, trucks, etc. frequently pass even when there is incoming traffic. The passed car and the oncoming car move over to make room, and everyone goes on about their day. It's seems that only in the US people think that's they own the whole lane and that it's a preposterous imposition and a huge danger when they have to pay attention and adjust their lane position to accommodate others. Driving/riding is a collaborative activity, not a competitive one. When you think about it this way, there was plenty of room for everyone to pass safely, it wasn't even a close call, wasn't dangerous (assuming the oncoming rider (the OP) is doing his job and paying attention), so this really was a non-event.

It's only a big deal if we believe that a vehicle is entitled to the entire lane no matter what, and that the rider/driver can turn off his brain and assume that he won't find any obstacles in his path. Which is kind of a crazy thing to believe, especially for motorcyclists.

Not to mention that it's this kind of belief (that you're entitled not to pay attention to what's in your lane) that leads to double yellows painted all over the place.

 

[Tharkûn]

It was a shit pass

 

[redruM]

it's the moral hypocrisy that annoys me.

we are excellent lawyers for our own behavior, but even better judges for the behavior of others.

 

[Surj]

It's seems that only in the US people think that's they own the whole lane and that it's a preposterous imposition and a huge danger when they have to pay attention and adjust their lane position to accommodate others.

There are many logical issues with your position. I'm splitting it up to make it easy to address them. I'm going to ignore the whole "oh, outside the US, everything is fine" bit because it's a straw man. Head to head collisions are a big deal no matter where you are on the globe.

Driving/riding is a collaborative activity, not a competitive one.

Collaboration means working together. There is very little of that in driving, and what collaboration exists is begrudging at best. What's actually happening is existence in the same spaces, and a need to not run into each other.

If there was communication happening—"I'm about to pass, make sure you stay to the right"—this part of your argument would have a smidge of validity (that would not outweigh the other problems). However, there are other components of this, and every scenario. For example, a driver moving over to make room for a splitter may have several different motivations, some collaborative, but the action still may create a hazard for a rider or driver on the other side. It is, in most cases, reaction, not collaboration.

When you think about it this way, there was plenty of room for everyone to pass safely, it wasn't even a close call, wasn't dangerous (assuming the oncoming rider (the OP) is doing his job and paying attention), so this really was a non-event.

There was technically space, when "thought about" from a simple "measurement of space" perspective, but that thinking ignores other factors that should not be ignored:

1) If something goes wrong, whether environmentally or due to rider error, the room for addressing that issue is greatly reduced, the time for dealing it is shortened, and the penalty greatly increased.

2) Assuming that other road users are paying attention, are skilled, etc, is ludicrous. It's simply not true—consider the number of left turn collisions with riders, the number of "didn't see you" lane changes, and so on.

Any statement about road use that starts with "as long as other road users are paying attention" is rooted in fantasy.

It's only a big deal if we believe that a vehicle is entitled to the entire lane no matter what, and that the rider/driver can turn off his brain and assume that he won't find any obstacles in his path. Which is kind of a crazy thing to believe, especially for motorcyclists.

No. It's not about lane entitlement, in this scenario. I obviously believe that there are scenarios when shared use of lane space makes sense, but the penalty with opposing vehicles—versus bikes sharing a bit of the lane with traffic going the same direction at reasonable speeds—is very high.

You're not making it clear which rider you think is guilty of "turning off his brain," and of course, we should expect the unexpected, and gauge speed, position, etc to allow ourselves outs to address. That's a separate point, and doesn't justify passing like this.

Not to mention that it's this kind of belief (that you're entitled not to pay attention to what's in your lane) that leads to double yellows painted all over the place.

Again, not about "not paying attention." It was a shitty, stupid, indefensible pass.

it's the moral hypocrisy that annoys me.

we are excellent lawyers for our own behavior, but even better judges for the behavior of others.

It's the lack of critical thinking and wanting to create "rules," the refusal to understand the situational components, the desire to shape someone else's words to one's own preconceived notions that annoys me.

 

[Marcoose]

Ha. You'd have a fit driving or riding in Europe or pretty much anywhere outside of the US. Cars, buses, trucks, etc. frequently pass even when there is incoming traffic. The passed car and the oncoming car move over to make room, and everyone goes on about their day. It's seems that only in the US people think that's they own the whole lane and that it's a preposterous imposition and a huge danger when they have to pay attention and adjust their lane position to accommodate others. Driving/riding is a collaborative activity, not a competitive one. When you think about it this way, there was plenty of room for everyone to pass safely, it wasn't even a close call, wasn't dangerous (assuming the oncoming rider (the OP) is doing his job and paying attention), so this really was a non-event.

It's only a big deal if we believe that a vehicle is entitled to the entire lane no matter what, and that the rider/driver can turn off his brain and assume that he won't find any obstacles in his path. Which is kind of a crazy thing to believe, especially for motorcyclists.

Not to mention that it's this kind of belief (that you're entitled not to pay attention to what's in your lane) that leads to double yellows painted all over the place.

Holy shit, what a stupid post.

 

[Surj]

Holy shit, what a stupid post.

Now, now, Marcoose. Please be respectful.

 

[WWWobble]

Holy shit, what a stupid post.

Now, now, Marcoose. Please be respectful.

Having "shared" the road a little in Turkey and Italy, I kind of understand the drift of what ilikefood is saying.
A pass as the video shows would be a pretty normal occurrence from what I experienced.
And people I know who have ridden in SE Asia say Italy is a cakewalk. Yikes!

Given American "norms" I agree, shitty pass. It's not the way we do it.

However, several of my friends (and a few of them are riders) in other states think
California riders are insane. Lane splitting! OMG!!! Rude. Unexpected. Lethal.

 

[Marcoose]

Now, now, Marcoose. Please be respectful.

That was respectful. Nothing in that post is normal, right, OK, passable, logical, etc. There was a disrespectful version, but why say stupid stuff, right?

 

[redruM]

It's the lack of critical thinking and wanting to create "rules"

, said the guy who suggests that “obeying every speed limit is un-American behavior”, acknowledges that “personal responsibility is paramount” and laments how “our ever-restrictive society instead looks for a parent figure to make their decisions for them.”

Just sayin...

the refusal to understand the situational components

Once again, I’m not a fan of the pass. He could have easily waited 20 seconds, removing nearly all risk and avoiding nearly all scrutiny (surely one of the cage drivers or bicyclists would have thought “impatient asshole motorcyclist” no matter where the pass was made - but too bad, amirite?). I just feel that the righteous condemnation is overdone. 1.) I don’t believe for a second that the pass was initiated blind, 2.) There was plenty of room, 3.) Both riders saw each other immediately, from start to finish, which arguably made it a safer instance of lane-sharing than coming up on a vehicle going the same direction who doesn’t see you until you’ve (hopefully) made it past them.

the desire to shape someone else's words to one's own preconceived notions that annoys me.

Aw come on. It’s not “Ride Motorcycles, Take Chances” - it’s “Ride Fast, Take Chances”. You’re welcome to argue semantics or claim it was born from anti-PC humor and defiance but, to any reasonably intelligent adult, the latter half of the motto reads as a connective/qualifying statement that reinforces the first half: Ride Fast. Which is an inherently risky, unlawful, largely unnecessary and – in the eyes of many – “stupid” behavior. I mean, haven’t you heard? Excessive speed is the most prevalent factor involved in the majority of fatal accidents.

Of course, I’m not here to bash riding fast and taking chances. It’s what I do nearly every weekend. My simple point is, that particular pass was one rider’s calculated risk. Relatively safe in the grand scheme of fucktarded things riders might/will do on a bike. Who’s to say it was better or worse than the chance another rider takes by doing triple digits down a straight or taking one’s favorite backroad turn at > twice the posted limit? Riding one handed? Yapping via bluetooth? Doing a wheelie? Having a beer with lunch? Slippery slopes is all.

There are valid points to both sides of any good discussion.

 

[budman]

I don't get it. There's plenty of room for the both of you.

I don't expect a rider to use any part of my lane while I am in it unless we are buds going the same direction.

IMO: I think it was a blind hill and the rider took chances he should not have.
And doubled down on the stupidity by doing it with a passenger.

 

[Reli]

It was a shit pass

/thread

The rest, tl;dr

 

[FXCLM5]

That was a Barfer, Big Red.

However, one instance doesn't equal "ppl commit suicide all the time off hwy 1," just as a rider passing in the same line as an oncoming rider (or any vehicle) doesn't equal "normal."

your kidding me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXHnOVZdkec

i dunno wtf your talking about but google suicide on hwy 1, there are stuff from nor-cal to so cal

im not saying the pass there was a wise choice, there is just alot more to worry/focus on then that when riding 1 imo

i did not know that lady was a barfer , I was informed of this unfortunate incident via the local nbsr forum