Digital SLR / DSLR Camera Question / DSLR Thread 2

[Cycle61]

Why only 1/80th for these? Limitations of the triggers you're using?

 

[BrassPremier]

All I know is we were all stuck shooting 1/200, f/9ish, iso100. I know jack about lighting, dunno what else i can tell you

 

[zypher]

Why only 1/80th for these? Limitations of the triggers you're using?

dont need to bump it up...im using cybersyncs...i can get away with 1/30 but or 1/60th...ive read it somewhere i think photo.net where as if your max speed sync is 200th, only use 125th so you wont see the black line on the bottom of the photos...

 

[pitslave]

if your talking about this photo

then change your aperture...and probably use 1/80th or so...the photographer is far enough from the subject and DOF wont be a problem...

i can get away with 1/80th iso 100 f4 with that kinda setting...even with f5.6...

maybe flash at 1/2 power or so...

I don't see how shooting at 1/80th would solve the overexposure problem. We were shooting around 200 shutter speed and was stuck around f9-f11. If we shot any slower shutter speed than that it would overexpose. Shoot any numerically lower f stop and it would also over expose. These were not my lights and it was my first time using them also. We had ISO set at 100. I would like to try to figure out why we had this issue hopefully we can try this again with not be so limited on time. I remember Ian mentioned he turned the power output of the lights quite a bit. Not sure how low he turned it down but I ended up shooting the rest of the day with just the modeling light.

 

[Joebar4000]

I don't see how shooting at 1/80th would solve the overexposure problem. We were shooting around 200 shutter speed and was stuck around f9-f11. If we shot any slower shutter speed than that it would overexpose. Shoot any numerically lower f stop and it would also over expose. These were not my lights and it was my first time using them also. We had ISO set at 100. I would like to try to figure out why we had this issue hopefully we can try this again with not be so limited on time. I remember Ian mentioned he turned the power output of the lights quite a bit. Not sure how low he turned it down but I ended up shooting the rest of the day with just the modeling light.

That pretty much sums it up. FYI, the lights were almost all the way off - and yeah, if we ran slower shutter speeds, ambient light started to have enough effect to push the exposure even more.

I had less issues in the garage - my only guess is that there is a lot of reflection from the walls - but I do remember (in fact Nick commented on it) that I was STILL having trouble using a big enough aperture to distance the model from the backdrop.

I may have a quick shoot this afternoon with a friend, I might try draping black sheets on the walls/ceiling.

FYI, Doug has offered up his garage as a potential place for the next shoot. It's a more square area, but hopefully if it's an older style garage and not plasterboarded, it'll soak up excess light, and allow more of us to shoot at once.

On that topic - is everyone going to get the triggers Aris recommended? I'm tempted to go and get one, if only as backup. But if someone else brings a trigger, we could put one of each on each strobe, and each can be slaved to the other too, so two people can shoot at once, with ~2 second pauses.

 

[Joebar4000]

if your talking about this photo

then change your aperture...and probably use 1/80th or so...the photographer is far enough from the subject and DOF wont be a problem...

i can get away with 1/80th iso 100 f4 with that kinda setting...even with f5.6...

maybe flash at 1/2 power or so...

Oh, FYI, I didn't have the flash trigger, that was all ambient, what you're seeing on the brolly is the modelling light...

 

[zypher]

ohhhhh it was all flood lights?..next time ima go if time allows..i wanna shoot with you guys...and learn at the same time...always learn something new when shooting with people..fun stuff...

 

[zypher]

Oh, FYI, I didn't have the flash trigger, that was all ambient, what you're seeing on the brolly is the modelling light...

may i know what camera are you shooting with?..maybe you can bump up the iso and use the focal length of as a speed to avoid camera shake...

 

[VeloceMoto]

This has been something I've been trying to figure out. I feel like I'm so close to understanding strobe lighting, but there is still some mystery. My education on the topic is an amalgamation of bits and pieces from this thread, from strobist.com, from browsing strobist setups on Flickr and whatever I happen to find on Google.

I don't really have a method, as you describe above, to setup and tweak exposure. I just play around with it until it looks right. Even a blind horse finds water sometimes...

What I would LIKE to learn is how to set up everything /manually/. No TTL, no iTTL, nothing. The strobist guy hooked me when he suggested learning it this way and they you'll never have to worry about this system or that system.



Can you give an example? For instance, you're indoors, you set your aperture to, say, 5.6 and take a shot. Shutter speed is 1/200 or whatever... OK. Got it. Now you switch over to 1/200 and 5.6 [M]anual mode, yes? Why is this step necessary? Why not just go 1/200 and 1/250 every time and whatever aperture you want, and just adjust the flash power for the correct exposure?






.

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?





.

 

[Cycle61]

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

That's pretty much what I do in a controlled environment. If I'm not mixing with ambient light, I set the shutter to 1/250th, the aperture to what I want or need to make the photo look how I want, and adjust flash power as necessary.

In the field, blending with ambient, and shooting on the run, the gloves come off and I'll do whatever I need to give me an image. Often this means setting aperture priority, dialing the meter to -1EV to underexpose the background a bit, and using my ISO to control how much of an impact the remote flashes have on my image. Weird and unconventional, but it effectively gives me the ability to control my flash power in an instant from the camera, without affecting ambient.

 

[wannabe]

This has been something I've been trying to figure out. I feel like I'm so close to understanding strobe lighting, but there is still some mystery. My education on the topic is an amalgamation of bits and pieces from this thread, from strobist.com, from browsing strobist setups on Flickr and whatever I happen to find on Google.

I don't really have a method, as you describe above, to setup and tweak exposure. I just play around with it until it looks right. Even a blind horse finds water sometimes...

What I would LIKE to learn is how to set up everything /manually/. No TTL, no iTTL, nothing. The strobist guy hooked me when he suggested learning it this way and they you'll never have to worry about this system or that system.



Can you give an example? For instance, you're indoors, you set your aperture to, say, 5.6 and take a shot. Shutter speed is 1/200 or whatever... OK. Got it. Now you switch over to 1/200 and 5.6 [M]anual mode, yes? Why is this step necessary? Why not just go 1/200 and 1/250 every time and whatever aperture you want, and just adjust the flash power for the correct exposure?

I guess you can skip the step, but it's easy to end up lost in the settings if you don't already have a handle on things. This step gives you a nice baseline. I suppose you can do it your way too, but what if 1/200th of a sec is way off and you end up needing more light than you have in order to get the type of shot that you want?

The method I described is what I use to blend the the strobe lighting with the ambient. I've been working hard to build this skill more than any other. I figure that anyone can shotgun things to the point when the lighting looks good. But, not everyone can blend things to the point where you can't tell that a flash was used. Not all of your shoots are going to be in a nice studio. You will eventually work outside. When you're there, you will need to blend with the ambient.

I am starting to look back at some of the pics I took when I first started and can see how much better they would be if I knew how to blend flash with the ambient.

for example:

Too much flash:

Almost perfect amount of flash:

Unfortunately, these were just happy accidents for me, but they kind of show you what I'm trying to get when I take pics.

 

[wannabe]

That's pretty much what I do in a controlled environment. If I'm not mixing with ambient light, I set the shutter to 1/250th, the aperture to what I want or need to make the photo look how I want, and adjust flash power as necessary.

In the field, blending with ambient, and shooting on the run, the gloves come off and I'll do whatever I need to give me an image. Often this means setting aperture priority, dialing the meter to -1EV to underexpose the background a bit, and using my ISO to control how much of an impact the remote flashes have on my image. Weird and unconventional, but it effectively gives me the ability to control my flash power in an instant from the camera, without affecting ambient.

My theory is that the only thing that matters is the final image. It doesn't matter how you got there.

 

[VeloceMoto]

That's pretty much what I do in a controlled environment. If I'm not mixing with ambient light, I set the shutter to 1/250th, the aperture to what I want or need to make the photo look how I want, and adjust flash power as necessary.

In the field, blending with ambient, and shooting on the run, the gloves come off and I'll do whatever I need to give me an image. Often this means setting aperture priority, dialing the meter to -1EV to underexpose the background a bit, and using my ISO to control how much of an impact the remote flashes have on my image. Weird and unconventional, but it effectively gives me the ability to control my flash power in an instant from the camera, without affecting ambient.

I think I may have to play around with it a bit. I'm not sure if I am asking the right questions...

I didn't think shutter speed had any effect on the intensity of the flash?

When we talk about adjusting shutter speed, we're only talking about /adjustments to ambient light/, yes? Or no?

Same with ISO?

 

[VeloceMoto]

I guess you can skip the step, but it's easy to end up lost in the settings if you don't already have a handle on things. This step gives you a nice baseline. I suppose you can do it your way too, but what if 1/200th of a sec is way off and you end up needing more light than you have in order to get the type of shot that you want?

The method I described is what I use to blend the the strobe lighting with the ambient. I've been working hard to build this skill more than any other. I figure that anyone can shotgun things to the point when the lighting looks good. But, not everyone can blend things to the point where you can't tell that a flash was used. Not all of your shoots are going to be in a nice studio. You will eventually work outside. When you're there, you will need to blend with the ambient.

I am starting to look back at some of the pics I took when I first started and can see how much better they would be if I knew how to blend flash with the ambient.

for example:

Too much flash:

Almost perfect amount of flash:

Unfortunately, these were just happy accidents for me, but they kind of show you what I'm trying to get when I take pics.

Keep in mind, I have no method right now.

Each time I break out my flash it's a clusterfuck^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H education.

I think I see what you're saying.

Similar to Cycle61's comment... We're talking about balancing ambient light. And that is why we adjust the shutter speed and ISO, no?

Conversely, the only way to "blow out"/over-expose a subject, is to set the power too high on one's flash. Correct?

 

[wannabe]

I think I may have to play around with it a bit. I'm not sure if I am asking the right questions...

I didn't think shutter speed had any effect on the intensity of the flash?

When we talk about adjusting shutter speed, we're only talking about /adjustments to ambient light/, yes? Or no?

Same with ISO?

OK, I don't quite understand what you're asking here.

 

[wannabe]

Keep in mind, I have no method right now.

Each time I break out my flash it's a clusterfuck^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H education.

I think I see what you're saying.

Similar to Cycle61's comment... We're talking about balancing ambient light. And that is why we adjust the shutter speed and ISO, no?

Conversely, the only way to "blow out"/over-expose a subject, is to set the power too high on one's flash. Correct?

You can also over expose the subject by incorrectly setting too slow of a shutter speed.

 

[Ogier le Danois]

Yay!

I just picked up a D60 and two lenses.

Took about 200 pictures already, getting the hang of all the settings.

Too many..

 

[BrassPremier]

Took me almost 2 months to finish off all these 7 rolls of film, sent out to get developed/scanned, should have them tomorrow... Hopefully some cool stuff came out I can share

 

[Cycle61]

Keep in mind, I have no method right now.

Each time I break out my flash it's a clusterfuck^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H education.

I think I see what you're saying.

Similar to Cycle61's comment... We're talking about balancing ambient light. And that is why we adjust the shutter speed and ISO, no?

Conversely, the only way to "blow out"/over-expose a subject, is to set the power too high on one's flash. Correct?

Ummmm....crap. I've lost the direction we were going here.

Flash exposure is affected by:

Flash power
Flash to subject distance
Aperture
ISO

Ambient exposure is affected by:

Shutter speed
Aperture
ISO

The places where these lists don't overlap is where you get to control the two sources separately. Knowing how to do each separately, or both together, instinctively, is how you make the magic.

 

[VeloceMoto]

Ummmm....crap. I've lost the direction we were going here.

Flash exposure is affected by:

Flash power
Flash to subject distance
Aperture
ISO

Ambient exposure is affected by:

Shutter speed
Aperture
ISO

The places where these lists don't overlap is where you get to control the two sources separately. Knowing how to do each separately, or both together, instinctively, is how you make the magic.

You just distilled everything in that post right there.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate your patience!

Now it's time to go play with that SB600 some more...