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Does God exist....?

V4 Pilot said:
To each is own....

I don't find anything wrong whether one has faith in a god(s), or agnostic, or atheist.....

If theyre happy in their beliefs or lack of, more power to em.....

Just the ones that try to push their beliefs or lack of on others is when it gets irritating for me.....

I myself am a Jedi and content with it although Siths have more fun....

Fuckin-A John :thumbup
 
But why do you feel they are harmful?

When you look through history most wars and conflicts are directly related to religious beliefs. How many people die because they "went against God's will?" Yet how can that be if they do not follow that religion? Who is to say which religion is correct? According to Christianity all one must do is accept that God exists and that Jesus is your personal savior. Not that you must do good things, be a good moral person, or anything else... you only have to believe. Sounds like a religion invented by criminals to me.

If God is omnipotent, onmibenevolent, and omniscient; then how can evil exist? If he is all knowing then he knows evil exists and should remove it if he is also all good. Yet since evil exists and if God is all good and all knowing then why does God not remove it? Is he not all powerful then? If he is all of these as most religions claim then there is something wrong here... You tell me.

However, religion helps many people overcome many obstacles in their lives. It gives them the strength to go on another day when all else feels lost. It gives them a goal and a purpose, a higher calling. The power of prayer is well studied. Is it God answer the prayer or the soothing of the mind that occurs while praying that helps people? Who knows? It works for many people and cannot be discounted.

Ok... back to my philosophy homework...
;)

**edit**
If it is something that does him good and nothing is harmed support the guy. We all have our beliefs and a views of spirituality and how it should be expressed. Let him express it. Let him heed that higher calling that he is hearing. Be his friend, thats all anyone could ask.
 
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Ravien said:
According to Christianity all one must do is accept that God exists and that Jesus is your personal savior. Not that you must do good things, be a good moral person, or anything else... you only have to believe. Sounds like a religion invented by criminals to me....If God is omnipotent, onmibenevolent, and omniscient; then how can evil exist? If he is all knowing then he knows evil exists and should remove it if he is also all good. Yet since evil exists and if God is all good and all knowing then why does God not remove it? Is he not all powerful then? If he is all of these as most religions claim then there is something wrong here... You tell me.

(Preface this with a warning - take it with a grain of salt. I neither profess to know it all or be the goody two shoe.)

If you follow the spirit of Christianity, you'll understand about being "Saved". When you rededicate your life to God, all things are risen a new and the inequity in you is recast. Though you will face the consequences of your former self, if you whole-heartedly believe in Jesus Christ, the spirit of his redemption will save you forever more. Case in point would be the robbers and murders that died with him during his crucifixition. Although they faced the brutal ending to their mortal lives, they whole heartedly accepted Jesus in their lives and thus, were saved to live in an ethereal world where mortal boundaries don't exist. Basing on this idealogy, we cannot pretend to comprehend how the heavens work, how the "spirit" of oneself lives on, nor how it affects us eternally. This is one of the prime basis for all religions, if you don't believe me just look into the afterlifes, pergatory, etc.

As far as the evil that corrupts the world that exists, understand that from a Christian perspective God is perfect, but he made the world not after himself, but with free will. Satan was once a cherub, fashioned in the most beautiful of stones, jewelery, etc. and God-abiding, until that one day he placed himself above all else because of his beauty, and was casted out of the heavens. That is free-ordained will to all that follow God and the same free will allotted to us: hence the "bad apple" incident in the Garden with Adam and Eve. God has a purpose to all, and in the mortal realm, let us mortals take precedence with limited intervention. As far as free will and destiny are concerned, the belief is taken as so: God knows us when we were in our mothers wounds already. He knows of our decisions, our actions, our characteristics, our good, as well as our bad, everything! God is also all omnipotent and transends time like we can never envision. He was there, is there, and will be there, thus knows each of our fate down to the minutest decisions and thoughts we make about any situation. You have unequivocal free will still, just think it as someone who has the skill to predict 100% your every action, move, and interaction with the rest of the world. One of the best examples of this would be Judah, where Jesus knew and thus predicted his betrayal:

" JOHN 13:21 When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me. 26 . . . It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it." And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly." 28 But no one at the table knew for what reason He said this to him. 29 For some thought, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus had said to him, "Buy those things we need for the Feast," or that he should give something to the poor. 30 Having received the piece of bread, he then went out immediately. And it was night. "

(/end philosophical rant)
 
Above all else I will say this, ignorance and religion don’t mix. That is what causes most problems associated with religion. With that said, ignorance doesn’t mix with anything. Ignorance and motorcycles is one of the main causes of deaths among motorcyclists. Motorcycles themselves are not bad, but when mixed with ignorance, bad things happen. This is like what occurs with religion.
Ignorance or ill will causes most problems

Ravien said:
When you look through history most wars and conflicts are directly related to religious beliefs.
...
If God is omnipotent, onmibenevolent, and omniscient; then how can evil exist? If he is all knowing then he knows evil exists and should remove it if he is also all good. Yet since evil exists and if God is all good and all knowing then why does God not remove it? Is he not all powerful then? If he is all of these as most religions claim then there is something wrong here... You tell me.


While many wars are related to religion, i would not call that a direct relation. When it is related it comes as another reason for war, but it is not the cause in of itself. Many of the things listed by GetaGripGreg would have occurred without religion. Religion can serve as a rallying call for division that aids a war effort (you know the idea that the enemy is inferior) but is rarely the casue. Personally I am of the belief that most was and conflicts are caused by the lust for money and power.

I’d like to next examine the ideas of evil and god. Evil can only exist if freewill exists. There is a term for beings who do no evil, angels. Angels lack the freewill that humans have. That god allows such evil to occur suggests that their is freewill. As such humans have the power to control their fate in this life.

Now you claim god does nothing about evil in this world, and weather or not that is true doesn’t matter. Most religions call for an afterlife in which evil deeds are punished and good ones rewarded. it would seem god does indeed make provisions for evil to be stopped, but in a manner that maintains humanity’s essential freewill.



or something, who really knows?
 
God knows us when we were in our mothers wounds already. He knows of our decisions, our actions, our characteristics, our good, as well as our bad, everything! God is also all omnipotent and transends time like we can never envision. He was there, is there, and will be there, thus knows each of our fate down to the minutest decisions and thoughts we make about any situation. You have unequivocal free will still, just think it as someone who has the skill to predict 100% your every action, move, and interaction with the rest of the world.

So if God knows all of our decisions before they happen, how can we have free will? His devine foreknowledge, in effect, has already sentenced us to our fate.

Many of the things listed by GetaGripGreg would have occurred without religion. Religion can serve as a rallying call for division that aids a war effort (you know the idea that the enemy is inferior) but is rarely the casue.

But they were done in the name of religion were they not?

Like all things that man has created, religion is a double edged sword. It has the power to help people yet at the same time it has tremendous power to hurt people.
 
FirebladeRR said:
(Preface this with a warning - take it with a grain of salt. I neither profess to know it all or be the goody two shoe.)

If you follow the spirit of Christianity, you'll understand about being "Saved". When you rededicate your life to God, all things are risen a new and the inequity in you is recast. Though you will face the consequences of your former self, if you whole-heartedly believe in Jesus Christ, the spirit of his redemption will save you forever more. Case in point would be the robbers and murders that died with him during his crucifixition. Although they faced the brutal ending to their mortal lives, they whole heartedly accepted Jesus in their lives and thus, were saved to live in an ethereal world where mortal boundaries don't exist. Basing on this idealogy, we cannot pretend to comprehend how the heavens work, how the "spirit" of oneself lives on, nor how it affects us eternally. This is one of the prime basis for all religions, if you don't believe me just look into the afterlifes, pergatory, etc.

As far as the evil that corrupts the world that exists, understand that from a Christian perspective God is perfect, but he made the world not after himself, but with free will. Satan was once a cherub, fashioned in the most beautiful of stones, jewelery, etc. and God-abiding, until that one day he placed himself above all else because of his beauty, and was casted out of the heavens. That is free-ordained will to all that follow God and the same free will allotted to us: hence the "bad apple" incident in the Garden with Adam and Eve. God has a purpose to all, and in the mortal realm, let us mortals take precedence with limited intervention. As far as free will and destiny are concerned, the belief is taken as so: God knows us when we were in our mothers wounds already. He knows of our decisions, our actions, our characteristics, our good, as well as our bad, everything! God is also all omnipotent and transends time like we can never envision. He was there, is there, and will be there, thus knows each of our fate down to the minutest decisions and thoughts we make about any situation. You have unequivocal free will still, just think it as someone who has the skill to predict 100% your every action, move, and interaction with the rest of the world. One of the best examples of this would be Judah, where Jesus knew and thus predicted his betrayal:

" JOHN 13:21 When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me. 26 . . . It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it." And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly." 28 But no one at the table knew for what reason He said this to him. 29 For some thought, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus had said to him, "Buy those things we need for the Feast," or that he should give something to the poor. 30 Having received the piece of bread, he then went out immediately. And it was night. "

(/end philosophical rant)

Good write up.

I believe in God, Jesus His Son and the Holy Ghost.
I believe that God gave us free will to choose His will or otherwise
I believe that you are destined for great things if you choose to follow His will
I believe His will is equal to His word and His word is in the Bible (not from the interpretation of any man, like a priest or pastor).
I believe you are destined for bad things if you choose not to follow his will (like breaking the commandments)
I believe you must believe in Him in Faith.
I believe that Faith is believing in the things you cannot quantify or explain scientifically.

I also believe that I would much rather die and be right that there is a God instead of taking the chance and do whatever I want in this world, die and find out I was wrong. It gets pretty Hot in Hell. Not to mention the torture.

Peez.
 
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Ok with this I don't want to offend anybody , is just an atheist joke that I think is pretty smart. Hope is not to long...


This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple.
The man spoke first: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"
John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."
Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary: "Oh, yes, all the time..."
Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"
John: "Well, no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to,
or you don't get the money, and he kicks the shit
out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left
town, and got the million dollars?"
John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left
town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you
the money if you've never talked to anyone who got
the money?"
Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."
Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?
John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"
Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you."
Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."
Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"
John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me: "Who's Karl?"
Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on From the desk of Karl letterhead.

There were eleven items listed:

Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you
leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't drink.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.
Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort
of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"
Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me: "How do you figure that?"
Mary: "Item 7 says, 'Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John: "No way! Item 5 says, 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says, 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says, 'Eat right,' and item 8 says, 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the
rest must be true, too."
Me: "But 9 says, 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says, 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock...."
Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."
John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me: "We do?"
Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."
Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying, 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"
John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But.... oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"
Mary blushes.
John says: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."
Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"
John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."
Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary looks positively stricken.
John shouts: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"
Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"
Mary sticks her fingers in her ears: "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."
John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that...."
Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."
Mary faints.
John catches her: "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off
 
Ravien said:
So if God knows all of our decisions before they happen, how can we have free will? His devine foreknowledge, in effect, has already sentenced us to our fate.

Definitions from Webster:

- Free will : 1 : voluntary choice or decision <I do this of my own free will> 2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

Again, in the case of Judas, was it his own free will that he choice to betray Jesus because of money? Yes, abosutely. Because God KNEW Judas' M.O. (i.e. money). He knew if tempted, as he was, he would give in, and sure enough he did. Was there any intercession on God's part to command Judas to betray...surely not! That is free will my friend, and how God can foresee our paths before we can. As once was answered when Man questioned God, "how can you (us mere mortals) begin to comprehend the magnificense and greatness of God, when you tremble out of fear out of mere mortal worldy monsters"?
 
m'kay, I am not gonna get into a discussion about your friends' choice to become a priest

but to answer your question "Does God Exist....?"

my answer is NO - a fooking hella great big NO

if he is all whatever whatever kind gracious, a good god, then fook this, he sucks ass big time. All the suffering in the world, and he lets it go on??? even perpetuates it????

fook that
 
if you want to rationally find out if god does exist, the answer is neither. you are irational if you belive that god does or does not exist. in a nutshell it is because neither can be proven. and "god" is something from a religous stand point or from a point of veiw. God is an opinionated topic. there is no real right or wrong, becasue there is no facts, just as there is no one right religion. we will all die some day, and life is meaningless. thats what i think of life. every needs to watch the movie or read the book Fight Club . it drastically changed my veiw of life.
 
read Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil... or even better, Anti-Christ.

also - support andrews view point.
can't explain my believes since I have to work..
 
Well, Wendy, to give a little insight into Christianity, it's like what Shaun said above. We as humans were created with a unique gift, free will. We can do as we please. Humankind(like that pc terminology?) has created a mess of our own. According to the Bible, we screwed up...practically from day 1. It's human nature. Also although it's not all fun, God isn't all warm and squishy...

So does God not exist simply because God does not live up to our standards?

on a side note...Chris is hungy, should Chris make something to eat from Chris's own kitchen?
 
F4iChic said:
but to answer your question "Does God Exist....?"
my answer is NO - a fooking hella great big NO

It's okay F4ichick...Jesus still loves you and wants you to go bling bling too! :angel
 
ChopStx said:
on a side note...Chris is hungy, should Chris make something to eat from Chris's own kitchen?

no i think Chris should go back to school so he can spell "hungry" appropriately, but that was his free will and choice...or did God intentionally make him do that?!!! :confused The world may never know! :wow
 
andrew said:
if you want to rationally find out if god does exist, the answer is neither. you are irational if you belive that god does or does not exist. in a nutshell it is because neither can be proven. and "god" is something from a religous stand point or from a point of veiw. God is an opinionated topic. there is no real right or wrong, becasue there is no facts, just as there is no one right religion. we will all die some day, and life is meaningless. thats what i think of life. every needs to watch the movie or read the book Fight Club . it drastically changed my veiw of life.

Yeah I watched Fight Club too. Really enjoyed that flick..I really should dig that one out. I think its about time.


Anyhow, so no right and wrong, and everything is relative? I suppose then morals would be left to...uh..society? Or even better, to quote from the forever popular... :p, "We make our own rules!"

AHAH!...For those of you who dismissed Biker Boys as a poor excuse for a movie--wrong my friend. We see here, it's actually a commentary on the meaning of life, challeging our set ways, breaking the conventional mold!
 
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FirebladeRR said:
no i think Chris should go back to school so he can spell "hungry" appropriately, but that was his free will and choice...or did God intentionally make him do that?!!! :confused The world may never know! :wow


Surely it was my destiny!
 
argggh

dont talk to me about christianity. I spent all of my school years attending assembly where we prayed, attending religious education classes (and I got thrown out one time for eating sweets (candies), praying for forgiveness

forgiveness for what???????? what the fook did we all do that causes us to beg for forgiveness???

I am not an academic, nor a theologist (are the two separate??) and I stand by my question

what the fook did we all do so wrong that we suffer so much? Shit, I saw them pics today about not drinking and driving, and the mess that poor girl ended up in. Made me cry. What the fook did she do to deserve that? Where is there a god in that fookin decision?????

fook you, and fook your god, this is hell on earth
 
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