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Does God exist....?

VashTheStampede said:
ALL people that follow their religion to the t are easy to manipulate.
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so why havent they been manipulated into your line of view yet?


anyway like bad dad said this thread went off topic long ago. oh well.
 
Bad Dad said:
Some are........ Most are not!

To use your analogy would be the same as someone who watches one bike wheelie on the freeway, and therefore makes the conclusion that "All motorcycle riders are idiots/reckless/careless/dangerous, etcc.."

Now most here are sick of being categorized with those, but yet continue to categorize any and all things/people related to religion?? Go figure.

I hate blanket statements.
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OK , from here , pretty much what ever I will say could be considerate rude and/or a personal atack and I don't want to get there. No body is gona convince anybody about anything in this kinda discussions. Faith or lack of it has to come from inside and is very rarely an epiphany. Is not that simple.
I don't hold anything against people of faith. My best friend is a born again christian and he is perfectly aware of my atheism. I appreciate he doesn't let this stand between our friendship. I think we should keep the same attitude on this forum to.
 
MetalHead said:

I don't hold anything against people of faith. My best friend is a born again christian and he is perfectly aware of my atheism. I appreciate he doesn't let this stand between our friendship. I think we should keep the same attitude on this forum to.
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:thumbup

None of the people I ride with have been "indoctrinated" or "inflicted by my plague"..:laughing :laughing I've never brought it up, unless someone asked me directly.

And I have no problems with people who don't believe the same as I do. None of the people I ride/hang with believe the same as I do. And I don't hang around christians. They bore me most of the time. :teeth
 
Okay.........everybody...GROUP HUG now!!!! :teeth







I'll lead us in prayer!........












j/k j/k......daaang..............:laughing :nerd
 
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haha...mental note: don't do the pledge of allegiance, sing God bless america with, nor the national anthem! doh! ;)
 
Bad Dad said:
I'm not easy to manipulate so shut the hell up.


And I don't remember anyone here doing anything other than answering the original question, or other questions posed here, or stating why they believe what they believe, and it hasn't been all "believers" doing so.

If you're not man enough to dialogue with people peacefully and without your rhetoric, then that is YOUR problem. Deal with it, or you "get the fuck away".
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sorry if it seemed like i wasnt being peaceful. i never mean to just be rude and start shit. my statement was not meant about anyone on this board. if fact no one on this board has tried to force anything on me. i just meant it as a general statement of what i have experienced in the past.

i believe that you are not easily manipulated but you already proved that point of mine since you obviously do not follow any religion down to the last dot.
 
cool :thumbup (sorry if I sounded too defensive)

I DO understand what you're saying though about those that get mind-screwed. I'm not one of them. I actually had someone come to me when my daughter had cancer and tell me that God told them that she got cancer because of sin in my life. :wtf But like I said, I follow God, not man, so I can dust that crap off.


NOW, howzabout that group hug??? :teeth
 
MetalHead said:
Ok with this I don't want to offend anybody , is just an atheist joke that I think is pretty smart. Hope is not to long...


This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple.
The man spoke first: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"
John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."
Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"
John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."
Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"
Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."
John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."
Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"
Mary: "Oh, yes, all the time..."
Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"
John: "Well, no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."
Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"
Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to,
or you don't get the money, and he kicks the shit
out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left
town, and got the million dollars?"
John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left
town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."
Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"
John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."
Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you
the money if you've never talked to anyone who got
the money?"
Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."
Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?
John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"
Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you."
Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."
Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."
Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"
John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."
Me: "Who's Karl?"
Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."
Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"
John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on From the desk of Karl letterhead.

There were eleven items listed:

Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you
leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't drink.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.
Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."
Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."
Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."
John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."
Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"
Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort
of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"
Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."
Me: "How do you figure that?"
Mary: "Item 7 says, 'Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!"
Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."
John: "No way! Item 5 says, 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says, 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says, 'Eat right,' and item 8 says, 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the
rest must be true, too."
Me: "But 9 says, 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says, 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."
John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."
Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock...."
Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."
John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"
Me: "We do?"
Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."
Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying, 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"
John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But.... oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"
Mary blushes.
John says: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."
Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"
John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."
Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary looks positively stricken.
John shouts: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"
Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"
Mary sticks her fingers in her ears: "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."
John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that...."
Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."
Mary faints.
John catches her: "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off
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karls letterhead is an anology of the bible or any religous text in my opinion.
 
just saw this thread and thought that i would add my 2 cents. first let me give you a little bit of my background. i was raised in a christian church (i won't say which denomination). in college i was a philosophy major and studied comparative religions. and thoughout my life i continually read up on as many of the "great thinkers." and with after all of this, in the matter ofthe existance of god, i can say one thing with absolute certainty... i don't know. this is not to say that i don't have my beliefs, but that i "hold onto my beliefs in fear and trembling that i may be wrong." on the most basic level, the question of the existance of god is a question of faith. from what i have seen on this website as a whole, there is noone that can argue this matter on a more complex level. understand that this last statement is by no means an attact on anyone. the average person does not have the background to tackle this arguement.that said i would like to address two things that came up in this thread.

first, "religion is the opium onto the masses." this is a statement that first appeared in the works of marx and engels and today is commonly quoted out of historical context. when this was first stated opium was widely used for medicinal purposes and was not viewed as a harmful drug as it is today. the idea was that religion can serve a purpose to help with the desiese of life.

the second (being a little more personal to myself) is the use of nietzsche. nietzsche is one of the most widely misunderstood philosophers in history. he happens to be one of my favorite writters and is someone that i continuely grapel with. but to use his words insofar that it relates to this thread, "beware of the man who claims to know the difference between good and evil." meaning in essence that the true nature of good and evil are beyond the comprehention (sp?) of the common man.

finally, i would like to address rc51rider and his friend's decision. your friend has chosen a path in life that follows one of his passions. it is not like he will be one of those people who will use religion to commit any atrocities upon his fellow man. he may even manage to spred some goodwill, something i think the world could use as much of it that it could get. be supportive. be a friend. be a man. be the type of person we all try to be and be there for him, not against him.

sorry if this went on a little long.
 
dedge,
well stated and helpful post.

Opium has always been utilized by humans as a narcotic, hence helpful
and medicinally used to subdue symptoms of pain, not
as a cure of disease. Narcotics anesthesize the part of the brain that registers pain
yet it doesn't help to resolve or heal the painful origins. I believe that
religion is akin to narcotics-our beliefs in whatever helps us practice hope and
compassion certainly assists with the pain in this life yet we can't expect
our religious beliefs to address nor stop the origins of our emotional
or physical suffering.

Does that make sense?
Hope so.
Melissa
 
whoops

sorry for taking the original posts' intention away from itself
in my side conversation. dedge, next time we hang out, bring some
narcotics and let's tawk:laughing

Melissa

ps-no offense to anyone ever intended!
 
MetalHead said:
Well the way I see it I don't have to prove the non existence of any god. The world makes perfect sense to me the way it is .
If anybody wants me to accept their god as reality they have to prove it to me beyond any doubt. But as any theist will tell you this is all about faith. Is about wanting to belive an idea as truth without fizical proof.
That does not work for me. Why ? Because I can accept the absurdity and cruelty of life without wanting to hide my head in the sand.
[/i]
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How odd... I was talking about this with my (atheist) friend last night. From my point of view, atheism is as much a religion as most other faiths :nerd (they don't get their proof beyond a doubt of the existance of (a) God, and atheists don't get their proof that there isn't a God ;))

About the only thing I do not understand about Atheism is how it can justify any kind of "moral" behavior-- I use moral here in the sense of arbeitrary edict, e.g. "Thou shall not steal" (not, for example, Thou shall not steal because someone will chop your hand off! :))

But I suspect this is a larger issue for me, as I've been tangling for a while with the perception of what "morals" and "ethics" mean. Dictionary usage is pretty clear cut-- I think M-W even lists them as synonymous; but in dicussion with other people my whole life, there has always been a subtle difference in usage. Well, that's assuming they actually have a concept of what "ethics" are... :laughing

But I digress.

As what is probably most accurately described as an agnostic, I say pursuing the question of the existance of God is... at best interesting, and at worst just masturbatory. :twofinger
 
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