Engine/Compression Braking, Why???

[Robert R1]

I see so many riders coast into corners and/or use compression/engine breaking to slow down. Why??? What's wrong with the front brake??? I'm a firm believer of: if you are not on the brakes, then you better be on the gas. Coasting and neutral throttle accomplish nothing!!! yet a lot of riders do it, why???.

Why are people so afraid of braking???

 

[theSteveCo]

I can lift the back wheel (not TOO high, though)... I wouldn't necessarily say I'm afraid of braking.

Personally, I try to avoid riding at a pace that requires braking in the hills. In fact, I'm "that guy" that doesn't speed down the straights, I just don't slow down much for the corners, either. On the track, however, braking is my current achilles heel. It's my next target of study. My mid-corner and exit speeds are plenty high enough (at least I think so), but my entries are, for lack of a more descriptive term, W E A K!

That's why I just keep going back to the track.

 

[RS250 Chester]

I don't have this issue on my 250, as it doesn't have engine braking

But on my RSV, my front suspension just isn't set right. It's too soft and the front dives on braking. Thus I;ve avoided doing that...but once I get my suspension sorted, it might be different.

 

[Max Smiley]

I had to back off 2 clicks on the fronts both compression and rebound on the rsvr, it was just too stiff in bumpy SF. also, each fork was setup differently want to soften the rear up a bit more too, it is also too harsh for my rider weight.

compression braking just sounds too cool though on this bike if I screw it up the rear is snaking all over the freaking place w/o even trying. not good.


oops yeah forgot the question I know exactly what you're talking about, heard it over and over in AX school. streets not a racetrack though. in a race on the track, yeah go for for the kill if you can handle or settle for seconds.

 

[Mospeada 21]

LOL!

I clicked on this thread thinking the post was educational......silly me. Mechanical or technique wise?

Anyway, I think Steveo said it best.

=)
-Mospeada 21

 

[magyarbetyar]

Basically what Steve said. I have yet to get to the track and that is really the only place that riding style belongs IMO. If your braking hard for every corner on the street your going to fast. . .IMO

 

[donoman]

Engine braking, front braking, same old shit. I use both at the same time. It's nice to have the gear already engaged when I'm going into a turn rather trying to fiddle with the clutch mid-turn, right?

If I enter a turn too hot, I can let off the gas and use the brake, then easily roll on the gas w/o worrying about abrupt engagement.

 

[MrCrash]

I see so many riders coast into corners and/or use compression/engine breaking to slow down. Why??? What's wrong with the front brake???

I like minimizing the load on the front traction patch on corner entries, which maximizes my margin for error on the street if I need to make an emergency manuever. On the track, using the engine braking in conjunction with my front brakes lets me fire into corners deeper than many of my competitors.

I'm a firm believer of: if you are not on the brakes, then you better be on the gas.

As I am, if I'm on the track.

Coasting and neutral throttle accomplish nothing!!! yet a lot of riders do it, why???

Because I'm not trying to "accomplish" anything on the street outside of smoothness. That smoothness is maximized by setting my speed early through gear selection and turn in, minimizing the need to brake.

Why are people so afraid of braking???

Braking sucks more energy out of me than any other typical operation on a motorcycle. Minimizing that maximizes my stamina. That stamina is important in the kind of riding I like to do.

 

[hitjohn]

i have a tl1000r, using the motor to slowdown sometimes is the most comfortable thing to do. at the track sometimes i just tap the brakes for a second while using the engine and im already in gear to exit the turn.

someone one told me that its bad for the bike and this and that but sheesh, i was ike "quit bitchin" like a bike was not made to downshift in?

sometimes downshifting and compression braking can be effective depending on what kind of a turn you are in and i will also use compression braking depending on the weather and type of road, how slippery it is. sometimes its just more comforting to use the rear wheel for braking than the front.

at the track, sometimes when i downshift before a turn the rear end fishtails and its like riding a dirt bike: )

 

[thebusby]

I don't typically go into turns very hot so not much braking is required and compression braking doesn't upset the suspension, much. I think it lets you fine tune your turn entry speed a little more ( for the unskilled... ) and help build confidence for the corner. I can't remember how many times I've gone in lightly on the brakes then switched to slowly rolling on the throttle a tad late and had the suspension go everywhere (Yet another area I need to practice ).

Don't racers use a slipper clutch for smoother downshifts into turns?

 

[Robert R1]

The biggest fear I see from people is the idea of the back wheel floating, the front end locking up and/or locking up the rear when they are braking and downshifting.

This aren't cool feature or a problem with them bike. Smoothness on the brakes is just as vital as smoothnees of the throttle. It's the rider's inability to blip the throttle smoothly when they downshift and trying to drop down a couple gears really fast while braking hard. I had the same problem at the track.

You can just go out to the backroads or a long deserted straight and practice this technique of hard braking and downshifting smoothly at the same time in a straight line. You don't have to be going hot into corners on the street to get it right. Then the next time your at the track you have this technique nailed and will see a significant drop in your laptimes.

 

[theSteveCo]

Bastardization, but for a good point....

I'm a firm believer and strong advocate of practicing braking drills. I do this regularly -- every month at least. I highly recommend all riders do the same at some level of frequencty. No one should fear the brake.

 

[Hooli]

You can just go out to the backroads or a long deserted straight and practice this technique of hard braking and downshifting smoothly at the same time in a straight line.

Perhaps...it depends on the road. I prefer not to hammer the brakes if the conditions are unknown, such as he possibility of gravel/oil around the next corner. It also depends upon the engine displacement, style and configuration, i.e., a large-displacement L4 will usually have more engine braking than, say, a parallel twin.

V-twins and big thumper bikes are the masters of engine braking (what brakes, lol! ).

When not in attack mode I prefer to let the engine slow me down as well as give me a rush. Last Tuesday, I led a small group down the front side of Hwy 9 to Saratoga, headed for the SJ 'Bucks meet. I pretty much left the engine in second all the way down, and really didn't touch nor need the brakes all that much.

 

[morthrane]

The biggest fear I see from people is the idea of the back wheel floating, the front end locking up and/or locking up the rear when they are braking and downshifting.

This aren't cool feature or a problem with them bike. Smoothness on the brakes is just as vital as smoothnees of the throttle. It's the rider's inability to blip the throttle smoothly when they downshift and trying to drop down a couple gears really fast while braking hard. I had the same problem at the track.

Robert, I think as far as streetriding goes, its a question of safety margins. Granted, I'm terrible when it comes to braking hard into turns-- I flat out don't like the sense of almost out of control, the little nitpicker in the back of the brain that says "If you don't hit this, YER SCREWED!". In short, it limits your available options when your front end is compressed, you're already hard on the brakes, and suddenly you need MORE? Forget it, you're screwed-- dive into the corner and pray for the best.

Personally speaking, I think I went too far in the opposite direction, thinking that a good rider should NEVER use the brakes, that they are a sign of weakness and inability (which is hardly true-- just that some newer riders hammer those brakes unnecessarily ). No, on the street brakes have their place as a finesse tool. If you really need that hardcore braking power, you either seriously misjudged, or you got some bad, bad luck...

That said, I know for sure that corner entry and braking on the track is a big problem for me I tiptoe into corners like a granney getting out of a slippery bathtub. I'll claim its a street riding habit but still something I really have to work on.

 

[christofu]

I see so many riders coast into corners and/or use compression/engine breaking to slow down. Why??? What's wrong with the front brake??? I'm a firm believer of: if you are not on the brakes, then you better be on the gas. Coasting and neutral throttle accomplish nothing!!! yet a lot of riders do it, why???.

Why are people so afraid of braking???

On the track I often lift my rear tire to wave at people behind me (who am I passing under brakes).

Since I try to stay as light on the bars as possible this takes an inevitable toll on my testicles . A toll I'd prefer not to pay every day, for every corner on the street!!

I agree that everyone should practice braking hard. You know, for emergencies. Otherwise, it's a lot smoother, a lot safer and a lot less painful to use more gentle braking and engine compression on the street.

Chris.
www.ZoomZoomTrackDays.co

 

[super_greg_#1]

In Uzbekistan (where I'm from), brake pads are _VERY_ expensive, so we need to conserve! That is why engine braking is the preferred method. You fat, lazy, wasteful Americans need to learn how to conserve!

 

[wei7]

Re: Re: Engine/Compression Braking, Why???

Since I try to stay as light on the bars as possible this takes an inevitable toll on my testicles . A toll I'd prefer not to pay every day, for every corner on the street!!

I agree that everyone should practice braking hard. You know, for emergencies. Otherwise, it's a lot smoother, a lot safer and a lot less painful to use more gentle braking and engine compression on the street.

Chris.
www.ZoomZoomTrackDays.co

Although I am not as hard on my testies as Chris is I do agree with him. Sounds like someone should have an icepack ready at Sears this weekend

 

[Holeshot]

Robert:

If you want to know what braking is like without engine compression, next time yoke in the clutch and use your fronts to go through a turn...it's not fun!

Some bike engine brake better than others. My G1K does not like to be "finessed" and engine braked into turns. The rear wants to chatter and lock up even with a decent amount of throttle matching. So I simply leave it in gear, brake front/ and back depending on the turn and then bang gears before dipping it in. It's not the most ideal method, but it's been making for good lap times.

The RC51 on the other hand, simply loved engine braking, and so does the R6...The idea of it is nice to me too, to allow the rear to spin up fast and carry the rear end of the bike off of the ground. It makes me using my rear less frequent. But, in short, for the street aggressive ridding like that is gonna kill someone soon. F-That.

 

[Robert R1]

Confession: I love Super Greg.

Easily the coolest member on this board!!!

 

[superhawk]

Since i've owned a twin, I do a lot of engine braking on the street. I don't do the twisties, on a regular basis, and when I do it's at a moderate pace. On the track it's a different story, It's all front brake!