Even if it's not drafting but tailgating, it doesn't belong in C Group

[NorCal Factory]

If you are in a large pack it is a bit less safe. So exit the track and go into the hotpit lanes and go out 10 seconds later for clear track riding at lower risk.

Over time you will,learn how to pass safely and get by bikes of any size or HP.

Ask an instructor how they do it.

 

[stangmx13]

Riding w others on track, especially random people only grouped by some arbitrary speed grouping, requires attentiveness and quick decision making along with a good amount of trust. When approaching a slower rider, size them up real fast. Pay attention to where their line is, notice where and how hard they brake, and watch where and how hard they get on the gas. Based on all that, make a decision about how much u trust them and their skills. Do u trust them enough to pull up close and pass them around the outside? Or do they look sketchy and will require a lot of space? Not everyone deserves the same level of trust. But it's pretty ez to spot the sketchy ones and the skilled ones in a very short time while on track. if/when everyone does this on track, even the people passing u will do the same.

Aside from all that, not enough ppl at track days take advantage of this really ez way to get unstuck from a big group. others have already said it. A few corners before the end of the lap, throw a hand up. Then before pit in, get off the line... Then slow down and exit the track. Roll through the hot pit at 50mph and re enter the track safely. If u were matching the speed of the group before, u won't catch them in the 3-5 laps u have left.

 

[clutchslip]

You seemed to understand the problem better in your earlier post. It's not the fact that bunching up occurs that is the issue, but that the following distance riders are using is too small when they arrive at the bunch up.




Most tracksdays I've been at either require mirrors to be taped or removed, so how would you know there is someone dangerously close behind you? Track day schools I've attended have instructed keeping eyes (and focus) forward. Never have I heard it recommended to make routine or even periodic headchecks to assess the situation to the rear. If I did and the guy behind me was a foot away, he'd smack me for sure.



You got any youtube clips handy of those MotoGP guys doing this? And for the sake of argument, we're not talking professional racing, we're talking C Group at trackdays, which is not supposed to be racing.

You deserve to be responsible for my first suspension, ever. You might be one of those people that other posters call a "self-centered ignorant twat". I don't like that kind of language, so I will refrain from using it. I tried to help. You don't want help. I am not linking to MotoGP videos, because you are ignorant about track behavior. IT IS UP TO YOU to figure it out. I know how it works. You should know, but you apparently don't want to know. And yet you complain about things that you know nothing about.

 

[kelsodeez]

ive found that its harder to safely pass people in group C because they arent as predictable as people in group B

 

[russ69]

I guess you may as well get used to banging fairings and rubbing tires before you really start going fast with the faster groups. I can't count the number of times I got bumped or bashed in practice. Come on guys it's just practice no trophies or nothing. It didn't matter some guys just got to be doing dumb stuff.

 

[metricHalfPint]

You deserve to be responsible for my first suspension, ever. You might be one of those people that other posters call a "self-centered ignorant twat". I don't like that kind of language, so I will refrain from using it. I tried to help. You don't want help. I am not linking to MotoGP videos, because you are ignorant about track behavior. IT IS UP TO YOU to figure it out. I know how it works. You should know, but you apparently don't want to know. And yet you complain about things that you know nothing about.

If this is Lou, and you've hacked clutchslip's account, then they SHOULD suspend you.

 

[Sharky]

Riding w others on track, especially random people only grouped by some arbitrary speed grouping, requires attentiveness and quick decision making along with a good amount of trust. When approaching a slower rider, size them up real fast. Pay attention to where their line is, notice where and how hard they brake, and watch where and how hard they get on the gas. Based on all that, make a decision about how much u trust them and their skills. Do u trust them enough to pull up close and pass them around the outside? Or do they look sketchy and will require a lot of space? Not everyone deserves the same level of trust. But it's pretty ez to spot the sketchy ones and the skilled ones in a very short time while on track. if/when everyone does this on track, even the people passing u will do the same.

Aside from all that, not enough ppl at track days take advantage of this really ez way to get unstuck from a big group. others have already said it. A few corners before the end of the lap, throw a hand up. Then before pit in, get off the line... Then slow down and exit the track. Roll through the hot pit at 50mph and re enter the track safely. If u were matching the speed of the group before, u won't catch them in the 3-5 laps u have left.

I much prefer going through the hot pits and letting the cluster go better than trying to make a bunch of passes. For me its just a track day, not a race. ID rather be out as alone as possible and work on my lines, braking markers etc. no matter what group (not that its much of an issue for me in A group), but still. Same goes for someone that is all over my rear. If they catch and stay up with me, I will typically let them go by when its safe to do so.

 

[fubar929]

Passing, especially decisive passing, is one of the last skills that C-group riders learn. Because you have riders of varying skills riding bikes of various displacements, this sort of stuff is bound to happen. I've been to 100+ track days, a majority of them as an on-track instructor, and I've rarely seen this sort of behavior result in anything more than a little frustration.

If you're the type that needs a constant 6+-foot safety bubble around you, riding the couch might be a better plan than riding at a track day...

 

[Brokenlink]

You deserve to be responsible for my first suspension, ever. You might be one of those people that other posters call a "self-centered ignorant twat". I don't like that kind of language, so I will refrain from using it. I tried to help. You don't want help. I am not linking to MotoGP videos, because you are ignorant about track behavior. IT IS UP TO YOU to figure it out. I know how it works. You should know, but you apparently don't want to know. And yet you complain about things that you know nothing about.

What's your deal Clutch? You seem to be getting grumpier and grumpier lately. In this case, this one is all you man. Dude was asking questions, you went full retard on him.

 

[Honey Badger]

I don't want to see C groupers worrying about riders behind them and trying to "get out of the way." All that does is create a very dangerous situation if another, faster, rider is approaching and planning a pass based on where the slower rider should be. Suddenly jerking off their line in an attempt to "make room" for someone who they can't clearly see is extremely dangerous, even more so if people are bunching up a bit. If someone is that much slower it shouldn't be hard to get around them in a safe place.

If you're one of the faster riders, and a group or rider is frustrating you, pull off into the hot pits for a second and then go out when there's a big clear spot (most grid marshals will wave you back on at a good time). Enjoy your clearer track.

Pass for the other rider's comfort - NOT yours. It's a trackday, not a race. It's C group, not A group.

 

[redtail]

Pass for the other rider's comfort - NOT yours. It's a trackday, not a race. It's C group, not A group.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[stangmx13]

I don't want to see C groupers worrying about riders behind them and trying to "get out of the way." All that does is create a very dangerous situation if another, faster, rider is approaching and planning a pass based on where the slower rider should be. ...

+1

 

[ZCrow]

...
Also, some of you may need special glasses to adjust the skewing of track distances that seems to be occurring. Where you're seeing 6 feet of space, I'm seeing 4 or less, and the example that's barely a foot is just stupid at any speed.

How do you make space behind you?

I do not need my glasses adjusted. Only the first photo in the 4 photos you supplied showed someone riding closer than the 6' bubble. Keep in mind, 6' is the length of one bike.

As for the space behind, I think Honey Badger covered that, you shouldn't be worrying about what is behind you.

I wish I could offer you some practical advice but I never had a problem passing groups in C so I never experienced this herd problem. In B or the few A/B days I have done, faster riders have never seemed to have a problem zipping right by me either on the straights or corners. I am just that slow.

 

[FourThreeSix]

If things are hairy, pull into hot pit and get some separation. Anything can happen in those clusters. I'd rather have the open track anyways. Passing is fun and all, but things are too unpredictable in C and B groups when clusters form.

 

[tuxumino]

I don't want to see C groupers worrying about riders behind them and trying to "get out of the way." All that does is create a very dangerous situation if another, faster, rider is approaching and planning a pass based on where the slower rider should be. Suddenly jerking off their line in an attempt to "make room" for someone who they can't clearly see is extremely dangerous, even more so if people are bunching up a bit. If someone is that much slower it shouldn't be hard to get around them in a safe place.

If you're one of the faster riders, and a group or rider is frustrating you, pull off into the hot pits for a second and then go out when there's a big clear spot (most grid marshals will wave you back on at a good time). Enjoy your clearer track.

Pass for the other rider's comfort - NOT yours. It's a trackday, not a race. It's C group, not A group.

This
the first track day I went to was a Keigwins 2 day, they emphasized being predictable in your lines so other riders would know what you're going to do.

one of the main things riders should be working on at the track is consistency: don't change your lines, braking markers and turn in points all wiley niley, be consistent and then change one thing and see how it works.

Trackdaze have a vast difference in riders experience, skill, confidence and perception of speed, especially in C group. It's really easy to find yourself in a pack circling the track, jockeying for a pass and suddenly someone is passing you and you need to maintain your chosen line and not freak out.
Now the pack passing thing might be fun for some, but for others they like to be alone on the track and for some it's fun to be dicing it up with one or two other riders: if you ride enough track days you will experience all three and overtime learn to find that spot in the circling mass that gives you the most chance to work on your skills while maintaining the safest possible environment.

 

[brownwa]

Want to throw in some track day n00b feedback. Did my first ever track day this past spring, been road riding for years. Even with street experience my first 2-6 track days were a handful. Basically as a new rider in group C you only have two concerns:

1. Slow down to follow your line, or
2. Speed up to a faster place and blow all your apexes.

It's really that simple. And this is before we even get into braking, body positioning, fighting with a sticky clutch that seems to not like desperate upshifts. You don't trust your tires (even though they're at track pressure), your pegs scrape, and that gang of dudes on Panigale 1199s keeps buzzing you every three laps.

The short answer is that n00bs like me follow closely because we understand the intimidation that the rider in front of us is feeling. It's almost always a rider with too little track experience on too much bike. Even a Ninja 300 is too much bike if you're too scared to lean it or threshold brake. Many n00bs are out there on shiny new R6s or some beautiful naked bike which is their baby. They are going to go slow and I am not going to pass them until the main straight. Or maybe a straight where I know I can blow past them and not scare them into f***ing up their next corner entry.

Also let's define close. We're not following at 6 feet, it's more like 10 feet. N00bs are hyper aware of their space bubble and like lots of it. Those pictures are flat, 2D images on a zoomed lens. I would like to see more GoPro chase-cam videos as those I think are more accurate. But trust me, as a n00b the last thing on my mind is riding someone's a**. I want to see as much track as possible and focus on hitting my braking point and corner entry.

As for moving up a group... I did a mixed B+/- day and it was intense. It pushed me to my modest limits. I'll admit it forced me to get off the bike more and I learned more in that day than I did in the previous 2 track days. But I was scared half the time. I will agree on pitting out though, but for a different reason. I think more n00bs should pit out-n-back-in at 10 minutes into their session (pit ride throughs are illegal at track days, lesson learned). It slows things down, helps you cool off, helps get the red mist out of your eyes. Since I started doing these "sissy pits" the quality of my laps improved dramatically. It let me forget about passing and focus on riding.

 

[stangmx13]

1. Slow down to follow your line, or
2. Speed up to a faster place and blow all your apexes.

if u checked your laptimes, i bet that #2 was barely faster than #1 or even not at all. u were just trying harder with bad results.

mediocre vs good lines is up to 2sec of time on some tracks. barely blowing one apex can lose u over 1 full second in some corners too.

 

[inthewoods]

I should just stay out of this discussion but I can't help myself. Lot's of new track day riders more worried about how they look instead of focusing on consistency/predictability. ie; hanging off, wanting to drag a body part, etc. You can pick these folks out on the first session. And who gives a shit about lap times in C.

 

[UDRider]

It's not how fast you are, but how fast you look.

 

[kelsodeez]

my first trackday i didnt want to look like i was trying too hard and one of the instructors told me that i wasnt leaning off the bike far enough. now im all the way off the bike like marc fucking marquez and shit