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Helmet expiration dates

Hey Barf people!

I have a hard to fit head at a three XL. I found a gorgeous AGV helmet and a 3X size that fits really well. It’s new, but the manufacturing date was December 2018. I’m guessing it’s been sitting in a warehouse at RevZilla sense.

I generally adhere to five years after date of manufacture on the expiration of a helmet but that’s Assuming I purchase it reasonably close to the date of manufacture.

What’s the collective wisdom here? How long would you hold onto it? I have not been able to find any other helmets in my size that are modular and the other manufacturers aren’t making that size at the current time.

Cheers,

Dan

You have a giant head. Helmets don't go bad sitting around, nor with normal use.


Manufacturing dates and expirations are for helicopters.
 
Fortnine has a nice video about it: https://youtu.be/_nbQsnUvlo4

His recommendation:
8 years after "born on date" of the helmet
5 years after first use
70,000KM (43,500 Miles) of riding with the helmet
 
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Fortnine has a nice video about it: https://youtu.be/_nbQsnUvlo4

His recommendation:
8 years after "born on date" of the helmet
5 years after first use
70,000KM (43,500 Miles) of riding with the helmet
Okay. Canada's biggest seller of helmets hired a 19-year-old spokesperson with no bona fides, and his exhaustive research indicates consumers should throw away their helmets after 43,500 miles and buy a new one.

It's authoritative because the videos are well produced and lots of people watch them, I guess.
 
Helmet technology improves year by year and even if I'm a cheapskate, switching to a new helmet every N years is actually saving me possible head injury costs.
 
Helmet technology improves year by year and even if I'm a cheapskate, switching to a new helmet every N years is actually saving me possible head injury costs.
This sounds like nit-pickery, but helmets protect us from brain injury, not head injury. The idea is the EPS foam slows your brain on impact to prevent/reduce trauma which causes bruising and swelling. That it also provides abrasion and impact resistance to your skull and face is secondary. That's the main thing riders don't understand about helmets, so I'm hoping someone absorbs this info.

I'm bringing this up because despite all the PR stuff I've heard from many companies about "improved" EPS liner shape and design, the bottom line is it's the pretty much the same shit Sony packed your Trinitron with in 1985. I'm pretty sure there's no evidence that the improvements to helmet technology since 1970 have reduced brain injury to a significant degree.

In the 15 years I've been covering helmets, almost all the changes have been for comfort, aerodynamics, venting (which never works for shit) comfort, weight and styling (which probably drives everything).

I like getting new helmets because the old ones start to break, wear out and smell bad! But like all the rest of our "safety" gear, the difference between one full-face helmet and the next is fractions of a percent.
 
Based on European regulations, unlike here where we are mostly interested in profits.
 
Based on European regulations, unlike here where we are mostly interested in profits.

Now you backed an assertion with another assertion. Do you have information proving the ECE standard reduces injuries and fatalities more than the DOT and Snell standards? Or is it just...

TruthinessColbert.jpg
 
Do you know of Internet search tools?
https://www.helmetfacts.com/standards/ece-22-05/

Frankly speaking, all I hope is that new riders reading this forum understand that spending 200 dollars for a decent new one with better specs than getting a used one from a garage sale is a better choice.

PS: Seems BARF is the same, I re-joined to read about bikes, trips, fixing bikes, reviews, but it's the same old same-old with even dangerious opinions here as usually so time to sign off again and a rather spend the little time riding my bike.
 
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Do you know of Internet search tools?
https://www.helmetfacts.com/standards/ece-22-05/

Frankly speaking, all I hope is that new riders reading this forum understand that spending 200 dollars for a decent new one with better specs than getting a used one from a garage sale is a better choice.

PS: Seems BARF is the same, I re-joined to read about bikes, trips, fixing bikes, reviews, but it's the same old same-old with even dangerious opinions here as usually so time to sign off again and a rather spend the little time riding my bike.

So just dump a very technical regulation to prove your very broad assertion that we just care about profits. This makes no sense.

But very good point: NEVER buy a used helmet unless it's from someone you 100% trust. And you don't need to spend $200. Any DOT full-face helmet will protect you very well. As I wrote before: it's a chunk of stryofoam that can't do much, but if it can do anything, a $75 piece will provide as much protection as a $500 one. Really.
 
Gabe is right about the primary purpose of a helmet--to prevent brain injury--and about their fundamental limitation--the distance the skull has to decelerate as it deforms the liner.

However, evolving standards CAN improve helmets. Remember the controversy 10 years ago or so about some helmets being too "hard"--i.e., producing peak deceleration too high in relatively low-speed crashes? IIRC, that characteristic had emerged from the Snell requirement for testing multiple impacts at the same location, a holdover from Snell's racecar helmet standards. The description of the ECE standard linked by ksandvik says:
This standard features a maximum threshold of 275 G’s. Impact testing is not as stringent as that of either the Snell M2015 or DOT standards, in that ECE 22.05 only requires single impacts on any particular location on the helmet (DOT and Snell demand two impacts per location) and it tests on two anvils—flat and curbstone—at lower velocities than the Snell standard.
I'm not an expert, but IF that was a problem, it seems that the ECE standard is trying to address it. Will it? :dunno

Based on European regulations, unlike here where we are mostly interested in profits.
No profits, no helmets. Here, Europe, or anywhere else. The issue isn't about some companies building helmets purely for the public good while other, evil companies build them for profit. It's about which standards are established and accepted.
 
Based on European regulations, unlike here where we are mostly interested in profits.

I read a paper a few years back, where it compared all the different standards: DOT, ECE, Snell and Sharp (is that what's it called in the UK?) The gist was they were all pretty comparable. It detailed their methodology, what it takes to pass, etc. DOT hasn't really changed their methods much, but it's still pretty good, despite popular opinion. I do remember my take away was that ECE was marginally better as far as reducing brain injury. I'll see if I can find it.

edit: I think this was the one I was thinking of: https://www.webbikeworld.com/dot-vs-ece-helmet-safety-standards/


Remember the controversy 10 years ago or so about some helmets being too "hard"--i.e., producing peak deceleration too high in relatively low-speed crashes? IIRC, that characteristic had emerged from the Snell requirement for testing multiple impacts at the same location, a holdover from Snell's racecar helmet standards.

I remember that, one article did independent tests on helmets and a plastic shelled Bell helmet, from Walmart, did better than the hard snell helmets, if I remember properly.

edit: or maybe it was this: https://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/MotorcyclistHelmets.html
 
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I read a paper a few years back, where it compared all the different standards: DOT, ECE, Snell and Sharp (is that what's it called in the UK?) The gist was they were all pretty comparable. It detailed their methodology, what it takes to pass, etc. DOT hasn't really changed their methods much, but it's still pretty good, despite popular opinion. I do remember my take away was that ECE was marginally better as far as reducing brain injury. I'll see if I can find it.

edit: I think this was the one I was thinking of: https://www.webbikeworld.com/dot-vs-ece-helmet-safety-standards/

Wow! I wasn't expecting much, but I think everyone needs to at least scan that Webbikeworld story. It's pretty good.

I know I won't get the last word on this thread, but if I did it would be this:

Wear a helmet when you ride, a full-face DOT MOTORCYCLE (amazing how many boneheads I've seen riding around in car-racing helmets and car-racing shoes) helmet every single time....

BUT if you don't feel "safe" riding without a helmet, you shouldn't ride at all--the sad reality that the US motorcycle industry doesn't want us to know or talk about is that a helmet is minimal protection that will only save you from low speed impacts (less than 15-20 mph speed when your head hits a motionless object). Motorcycling is very, very risky, and no gear, no matter how good, high-tech or expensive will ever make it anything close to safe as driving in a car.
 
... a helmet is minimal protection that will only save you from low speed impacts (less than 15-20 mph speed when your head hits a motionless object).

I don't know Gabe, I think a lot goes into the computation of how well a helmet protects. A direct hit against a solid object or a glancing hit? Rotational force? Multiple low velocity hits vs one higher velocity hit? Totally correct fit of the helmet or on the loose side? New helmet or 10 year old helmet?

A bunch of variables, many almost impossible to measure in the real world.

I don't take exception with your point that the motorcycle sport is dangerous, and doesn't forgive really stupid moves. It shares that with other active motion sports as well as aerobatics and perhaps ocean sailing.

And I do think that first tier helmet manufacturers are studying data (I'm thinking recent football concussion studies) and makers like 6D and Bell with their attempts to reduce the velocity of impact, or Arai with attempts to make a helmet slide rather than "catch" are doing the best they can ... and therefore deserve our support over $100 Walmart specials.
 
I don't know Gabe, I think a lot goes into the computation of how well a helmet protects. A direct hit against a solid object or a glancing hit? Rotational force? Multiple low velocity hits vs one higher velocity hit? Totally correct fit of the helmet or on the loose side? New helmet or 10 year old helmet?

A bunch of variables, many almost impossible to measure in the real world.

I don't take exception with your point that the motorcycle sport is dangerous, and doesn't forgive really stupid moves. It shares that with other active motion sports as well as aerobatics and perhaps ocean sailing.

And I do think that first tier helmet manufacturers are studying data (I'm thinking recent football concussion studies) and makers like 6D and Bell with their attempts to reduce the velocity of impact, or Arai with attempts to make a helmet slide rather than "catch" are doing the best they can ... and therefore deserve our support over $100 Walmart specials.

For sure I get your point. But there's a line that gear-snobbery crosses when it discourages new and/or casual riders from wearing protective gear of any kind, which is what happens when folks hear stupid bullshit like "wear a $10 helmet if you have a $10 head," as if a cheap helmet is worse than nothing. It's not.

In fact, it's scientifically proven that a $50 DOT helmet prevents brain injury pretty much as well as a $500 Snell. But yeah--if you can afford it, by all means support the established brands that lead the way in engineering. But some of the so-called "premium" brands have their helmets made in the same generic, state-owned Chinese factories where Walmart makes theirs.

I welcome the flood of cheap gear on Amazon, as a rider can get kitted up for less than $150 head to toe with stuff that's probably better then the top-dollar stuff from 20 years ago. And 20 years ago that same rider would be wearing a spray-painted 1980 Bell Star, shorts and sneakers.

As for my original contention that that helmet will protect you from 15-20 mph of impact with a solid object, well, you can nit-pick it all you want. Just remember that the helmet gets dropped on the headform in the DOT tests from what--8 feet? 10 feet? That's about 12 mph I think. 20 mph would be 20 feet (ish), 30 mph 30 feet, and 40 mph 40 feet--a 4-story building. Your helmet would have to be a yard across and you'd look like Gazoo from Flintstones.

helmet-jpg.108527


One thing that irritates me about Internet discussions (so why do you do them, Gabe, why? I don't know.) is when the geeky engineering types try to bury your point with an endless litany of very technical arguments. Sure, all those factors matter, but how much? Ten percent? Five? .5? I'm not saying this isn't important.

I've done a few stories about helmet testing and I talked to helmet designers and engineers from Snell and elsewhere. I know it's complex and it's all a very complex balancing act. I don't doubt everybody involved has the safety of the rider in mind first and foremost, snarky, cynical comments about "they just want to make money" nothwithstanding. But still, if you hit your head on a stopped object and your head is going faster than 20 mph, you'll probably die or be better off dead, whether a glancing blow or rotational blow or angular bilateral-axial traversement gyroscopic inertial paramoment or whatever jargon you want to spin at this. Your brain is going to bruise and swell and likely be damaged unless you're in front of a brain surgeon in 30 minutes.

Please try to see my point: no matter what kind of design, materials, quality, innovation, etc, the basic fact is that 1.5 inches of Styrofoam can only do so much. Which is not much. We need to stop implying that helmets make us 'safe.'
 
Please try to see my point: no matter what kind of design, materials, quality, innovation, etc, the basic fact is that 1.5 inches of Styrofoam can only do so much. Which is not much. We need to stop implying that helmets make us 'safe.'

I do see your point Gabe, and I accept it. Any helmet is better than no helmet. It can't possibly hurt. (well, the Shoei chin bar broke my collar bone on a dirt bike get off years ago, a magnificent high side that landed me at Kaiser) but still... no head injury.

My thinking is the things we do to stay safe on a motorcycle is additive. Nothing we can do will get us to 100% or maybe even to 50% "safe." But each rider course we take, the gear we choose, the helmet and how it fits, and of course, the "in the moment" riding choices we make, add to or detract from the "safety" side. The goal is to put as many things in the plus side as we can isn't it?

And I appreciate your work and reporting on helmets, gear, what works and what doesn't. Lot's of mis-information out there and your reputation is good.
 
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