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How is one arrested solely for resisting arrest/

exactly my point. We cannot allow cops to remove defense attorneys from the scene, it would not have taken place were that an attorney on retainer for the suspect, therefore setting up a two tiered justice system in america.

The reason why the charges will be dropped is because the DA will not want case law to be established which will put a stop to this egregious perversion of justice.

It's gotta suck to so often be on the wrong side of justice.

Why, pray tell, would there be an attorney on retainer? Do you mean one should be appointed before any police investigation into any crime? Like, I ran a stop sign and I get an attorney appointed before I sign the ticket? Do you work for the Bar?


You're delusional, of course.
 
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Why, pray tell, would there be an attorney on retainer? Do you mean one should be appointed before any police investigation into any crime? Like, I ran a stop sign and I get an attorney appointed before I sign the ticket? Do you work for the Bar?


You're delusional, of course.

Many wealthy people do have personal attorneys who would not be challenged in the exact scenario which took place.

But keep arguing in favor of injustice.

PS everybody knows that signing a ticket is merely a promise to appear.


Edit: oh and from resident cood cop mod's link...

Unlike the Fifth Amendment right to counsel, which attaches in the context of custodial interrogation, see Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966), the Sixth Amendment right to counsel entitles the accused to effective assistance of counsel at the "critical stages" of the criminal justice process, including during trial and during certain pretrial proceedings. (United States v. Wade, 388 U.S. 218, 224 (1967); United States v. Ash, 413 U.S. 300, 310 (1973) (certain pretrial proceedings "might appropriately be considered parts of the trial itself" when the defendant is "confronted, just as at trial, by the procedural system, or by his expert adversary, or by both.").) The Court in Wade recognized that certain pretrial proceedings may yield results that "settle the accused's fate and reduce the trial itself to a mere formality." (Wade, 388 U.S. at 224.) In a pre-Miranda case that the Court later limited to its own facts, the Court held that the Sixth Amendment right to counsel was violated when police arrested a suspect and, while refusing his requests to see his attorney and denying the attorney access to the suspect, arranged a confrontation between the suspect and his accuser. (See Escobedo v. Illinois, 378 U.S. 478 (1964).)

The police are hinging their argument solely on the supposition that the state is paying the attorney which can be worked around were the defense attorney to not receive funds from the state for her work in that video.
 
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Many wealthy people do have personal attorneys who would not be challenged in the exact scenario which took place.

Really? So if Joe Bigbucks is walking down the corridor at Bryant St, with his attorney, and a cop sees him and realizes he is a dead ringer for a serial murderer, he wouldn't challenge him. Got it.

You want justice, as most of us do, but you have no conception or a mechanism that actually makes it work.
 
Really? So if Joe Bigbucks is walking down the corridor at Bryant St, with his attorney, and a cop sees him and realizes he is a dead ringer for a serial murderer, he wouldn't challenge him. Got it.

You want justice, as most of us do, but you have no conception or a mechanism that actually makes it work.

Correct. The lawyer for the suspect would advise the client to be silent. He'd point out that the cops already have his client's photo from booking and may even obscure his client's face and would be breaking no law.

If I were wrong, resident good cop mod would not be hinging his position on the "when does appointed counsel kick in" basis.

The mechanism you support is not justice, justice is innocence until proven otherwise.
 
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The conclusion of resident good cop mod's link..

Conclusion

As the dissenters in Cobb recognized, the Supreme Court's formalistic approach to the right to counsel has diminished the Sixth Amendment guarantee to "protect the unaided layman at critical confrontations with his expert adversary." (Cobb, 121 S. Ct. at 1347 (dissent) (citations omitted).) This constriction on the right to counsel is a compelling reason why courts should give the broadest possible interpretation to the state ethics rules barring contact by prosecutors and their agents with represented persons.

Two tiered system is not justice.
 
Correct. The lawyer for the suspect would advise the client to be silent. He'd point out that the cops already have his client's photo from booking and may even obscure his client's face and would be breaking no law.

If I were wrong, resident good cop mod would not be hinging his position on the "when does appointed counsel kick in" basis.

The mechanism you support is not justice, justice is innocence until proven otherwise.

WAIT A MINUTE! You conflate the booking he received on one crime with NO booking on another, and two cops who MAY NOT KNOW he is booked. They didn't pick him out of the courtroom, they were walking down the hall, saw him, and asked him some questions. You are confused.

Asking someone questions or taking their picture is NOT a transgression against justice. Being prevented from doing that may be.

But you know this. You're objecting not on real points of law, which you been proven ignorant of, but instead turning immediately to "BUT IT SHOULD BE" when proven wrong. Can't have a conversation with someone who makes up new rules in the middle of the talk.

I don't know why I bother, your response will again ignore reason and law, and appeal to emotion.
 
WAIT A MINUTE! You conflate the booking he received on one crime with NO booking on another, and two cops who MAY NOT KNOW he is booked. They didn't pick him out of the courtroom, they were walking down the hall, saw him, and asked him some questions. You are confused.

Asking someone questions or taking their picture is NOT a transgression against justice. Being prevented from doing that may be.

But you know this. You're objecting not on real points of law, which you been proven ignorant of, but instead turning immediately to "BUT IT SHOULD BE" when proven wrong. Can't have a conversation with someone who makes up new rules in the middle of the talk.

I don't know why I bother, your response will again ignore reason and law, and appeal to emotion.
Even the authors of resident good cop mod's link ( you know, members of the BAR ) agree with me and not with you. Think about that next time you throw that 'are you a member of the BAR?' Snipe at me.

Further, I am not confused, if the suspect's attorney was paid for by the suspect, there would be no arrest. As per resident good cop mod's link which he spent 24 hours digging up.
 
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Even the authors of resident good cop mod's link ( you know, members of the BAR ) agree with me and not with you. Think about that next time you throw that 'are you a member of the BAR?' Snipe at me.

:laughing:laughing

How can you not agree with someone who makes up anything they want and says it's the only truth? O wait/
 
No, you don't.

:laughing I get that you think a decision by the Supreme Court, that is current law, is wrong. What else don't I get? Your basic diatribe is always: "It ain't fair". We all know that.
 
:laughing I get that you think a decision by the Supreme Court, that is current law, is wrong. What else don't I get? Your basic diatribe is always: "It ain't fair". We all know that.
Yes, there is no justice without fairness.

So, once again, you demonstrate that you aren't in favor of justice.

I already knew that, time you stopped kidding yourself.

Is it time this thread devolves into the judicial overreach discussion?
 
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Yes, there is no justice without fairness.

So, once again, you demonstrate that you aren't in favor of justice.

I already knew that, time you stopped kidding yourself.


maybe you both used different dictionaries when looking up the definition of "fair" ?
 
maybe you both used different dictionaries when looking up the definition of "fair" ?

For the purpose of this discussion, I put forth that a person who has paid for representation (and a person who is a paid representative) shouldn't get different treatment from the government than a person who hasn't paid for their representative ( and a person who is paid by the state to represent ) gets.

But, whatever. Let the country burn as the ranks of the haves contract and of the have nots expand, which is exactly what will eventually happen.
 
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For the purpose of this discussion, I put forth that a person who has paid for representation (and a person who is a paid representative) shouldn't get different treatment from the government than a person who hasn't paid for their representative ( and a person who is paid by the state to represent ) gets.

Now THAT, is an interesting thought. Hmmmm...


Technically, I think they ARE treated the same ( ex: a LEO can ask any question, but if a person has a lawyer handy, then it's the lawyer that advises not to answer... rather than an unrepresented person, who decides, for themselves, not to answer ) At least that's MY understanding
 
Now THAT, is an interesting thought. Hmmmm...


Technically, I think they ARE treated the same ( ex: a LEO can ask any question, but if a person has a lawyer handy, then it's the lawyer that advises not to answer... rather than an unrepresented person, who decides, for themselves, not to answer ) At least that's MY understanding

Look, it's unjust and anything the police do is wrong. What's your problem? Fucking HIPPIE.
 
Even the authors of resident good cop mod's link ( you know, members of the BAR ) agree with me and not with you. Think about that next time you throw that 'are you a member of the BAR?' Snipe at me.

Further, I am not confused, if the suspect's attorney was paid for by the suspect, there would be no arrest. As per resident good cop mod's link which he spent 24 hours digging up.

Are you just making this stuff up now? It matters not whether the suspect had a private attorney on retainer and was walking down the street with him when stopped by police. The suspect does NOT have legal representation in a criminal matter that he has not been formally charged with. Says so right in the link I posted. The attorney might be already representing you in another criminal matter or whatever. It doesn't matter. SCOTUS has upheld a formal process for 6th amendment rights.

Is this a reading comprehension issue on your part, or are you being intentionally obtuse?

And spending 24 hours looking it up? This is shit I already knew. I spent all of a minute finding the link and posting it up in this thread. Some of us have jobs and work for a living.
 
Now THAT, is an interesting thought. Hmmmm...


Technically, I think they ARE treated the same ( ex: a LEO can ask any question, but if a person has a lawyer handy, then it's the lawyer that advises not to answer... rather than an unrepresented person, who decides, for themselves, not to answer ) At least that's MY understanding

No, it is up to the individual to assert their own rights. An attorney can act on their client's behalf once they have been retained as legal counsel for that specific case...meaning after charges have been filed. A case under investigation, where charges have not been filed against the person, does not fall under the SCOTUS bright line rule of 6th amendment interpretation.

That means the police do not have to consider the attorney or go through the attorney to talk to the suspect. And, in rare cass like the SFPD case in this thread, they can be arrested for delaying or obstructing if they interfer. I would say that things like this don't come up all that often. Most times when people are stopped by the police they do not have a lawyer right next to them. But a lawyer doesn't have magical powers. Their representation is case specific, according to SCOTUS.
 
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Some people, often known as sociopaths, live in a world of delusion and self grandeur that is internally manufactured and only touches upon the common societal world in a few places.
 
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