how to downshift, blip throttle and brake at the same time?

[Agent Orange]

Good God, I was only 4 when in 1984! =P

 

[stevet]

page 88

if can get your hands on the October 2002 edition of "Motorcyclist" magazine and go to page 88, they have a short article on how to blip and brake at the same time. easier for you to read it than for me to explain it.

 

[magyarbetyar]

That doesn't mean anything because we all know that the french are just plain crazy

I've driven in Paris several times and lived to tell the story. Barely

I hear that. 2 days of driving there and I said HELL NO, its foot power from here on out.

 

[Baptistro]

ah, k. i also tend to use alot of engine braking as well.

well, the engine can only wind up so high right? so if it's almost at max revs and you're downshifting, wouldn't it screw up the bike? (e.g. 10k RPM (almost rev limit on TLR) on 3rd gear, then downshift to 2nd.) i'd imagine it'd lock up the rear, make it start skipping and/or just totally fuck up the engine/tranny/internals.

Cal, I think you might be overlooking the simple fact that you're letting off the gas before engaging the clutch to downshift. Just letting up off the gas when you're at high rpm's is going to drop them quick, then you might blip with the clutch engaged, and release the clutch for a smooth dowshift. You'd only downshift while slowing down to keep the bike in the powerband of the lower gear through the turn. Am I just talking out my ass?

Now, I am still not understanding christofu's method of blipless downshifting, no need to dowshift unless you're slowing down, or planning on slowing down, unless you messed up and are in the wrong gear (let's keep this last one out of the scenario). You must be letting off the gas as you downshift right? You are then regulating the throttle. The mere act of engaging the clutch is automatically gonna bump the revs momentarily, if the throttle is steady, allowing you to bump down a gear and disengaging the clutch. Have I got it straight so far? If this is what you're doing, it makes perfect sense, except I would assume that you would need to be completely familiar with the machine to be able to do that ona regular basis, as well as knowing the track you are on and the speed you take each turn at exactly. Do you change the gearing on your bike from track to track? If so, do you find that you are more comfortable doing this on one track as opposed to another? I would imagine that it would change your power band considerably depending on your gearing changes, and, as such, would require you to adjust how you riude the bike, including how and when you downshift. Once again, am I talking out of my ass?

 

[christofu]

Now, I am still not understanding christofu's method of blipless downshifting, no need to dowshift unless you're slowing down, or planning on slowing down, unless you messed up and are in the wrong gear (let's keep this last one out of the scenario). You must be letting off the gas as you downshift right? You are then regulating the throttle. The mere act of engaging the clutch is automatically gonna bump the revs momentarily, if the throttle is steady, allowing you to bump down a gear and disengaging the clutch. Have I got it straight so far? If this is what you're doing, it makes perfect sense, except I would assume that you would need to be completely familiar with the machine to be able to do that ona regular basis, as well as knowing the track you are on and the speed you take each turn at exactly. Do you change the gearing on your bike from track to track? If so, do you find that you are more comfortable doing this on one track as opposed to another? I would imagine that it would change your power band considerably depending on your gearing changes, and, as such, would require you to adjust how you riude the bike, including how and when you downshift. Once again, am I talking out of my ass?

Bap, I guess I am "regulating the throttle" in the sense that I'm completely closing it and leaving it completely closed throughout the entire downshift process. That is, completely release throttle and don't open it again until you're in the turn. Hit the front brakes as hard as required, and continue braking at constant pressure. Now ignore your right hand.

Clutch in, downshift, clutch out. Clutch in, downshift, clutch out.

As you say, even if you're at redline, just letting off the throttle and momentarily pulling in the clutch for the downshift will automatically drop your revs dramatically, not to mention that you're also on the brakes.

I think you're thinking this a lot more complex than it really is. In reality it's a LOT easier than trying to blip, brake, downshift all at the same time. At least the way I ride, the key is trying to simplify. If I can get the same (or in this case better) effect by using fewer controls then that's definitely a good thing.

While it is in some respects related to gearing, etc, it really plays no major part. It takes just a few corners to get the hang of the downshifting/rev/clutch relationship on a new bike.

Are you going to be at the Oct 16th track day? I'll demonstrate.

 

[Baptistro]

Bap, I guess I am "regulating the throttle" in the sense that I'm completely closing it and leaving it completely closed throughout the entire downshift process. That is, completely release throttle and don't open it again until you're in the turn. Hit the front brakes as hard as required, and continue braking at constant pressure. Now ignore your right hand.

Clutch in, downshift, clutch out. Clutch in, downshift, clutch out.

As you say, even if you're at redline, just letting off the throttle and momentarily pulling in the clutch for the downshift will automatically drop your revs dramatically, not to mention that you're also on the brakes.

I think you're thinking this a lot more complex than it really it. In reality it's a LOT easier than trying to blip, brake, downshift all at the same time. At least the way I ride, the key is trying to simplify. If I can get the same (or in this case better) effect by using fewer controls then that's definitely a good thing.

While it is in some respects related to gearing, etc, that really plays no major part. It takes just a few corners to get the hang of the downshifting/rev/clutch relationship on a new bike.

Are you going to be at the Oct 16th track day? I'll demontrate.

Damn Damn Damn

No more track days for me this year. All the $$$ are in the house, and I am sure it will be worth it in the long run, but I want to ride sooooooooo bad

Besides, doc says I gotta take it easy for another three months, so I guess I have no choice

But I think I get it, it's just something I've never tried, I'll have to give it a go next time I'm at the track.

On your bike, do your revs stay pretty high even when you let up on the gas? Would you try the same method on a big twin with a dry clutch? I mean, how big a part of this equation is equipment?

 

[christofu]

On your bike, do your revs stay pretty high even when you let up on the gas? Would you try the same method on a big twin with a dry clutch? I mean, how big a part of this equation is equipment?

Let up on the gas + hard braking = rapid drop of revs

I do this all the time on my big twin street bike (an Aprilia Falco). In fact, this method works especially well for bikes with a lot of engine braking like singles and twins. It is still incredibly effective on inline 4s (like my girly's GSXR600) but it's awesome on bike bikes with few cylinders.

Try it on the street! Don't have to wait for the track. This isn't a "track only" thing; this is how I've always controlled a bike. That being said it really comes into its own with track-related hard braking.

It's fine for dry clutch bikes, especially when you get the hang of it. After you've practiced for a while the total clutch release time gets down to as fast as you can let out the lever. The trick is to time the downshifts so that the bike is always on the pipe (sorry, that's a two-stroke term. Hmmm... "so the bike is always in the power band"),
even with the throttle closed.

Shift down too late and the engine won't have enough revs. Shift down again straight away. Shift down too early and the revs go up too high. Feather the clutch on the way out to regulate how much power is being torqued back to the engine (just for a split second... the situation will automatically resolve itself with just a moment, even on a two-stroke 250 but especially on a big twin).

 

[Baptistro]

The more I think about it the more it seems quite plausible, not that I'm doubting you , I will definitely give it a shot, maybe even tonight

 

[Ace of Hearts]

I think Christofu is the only one making any sense here.

SMOOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone here that before?????

A blip is NOT smooth.

None of the controls are jerked, snapped, or blipped.

When not accelerating in a nice smooth controlled manner you are decelerating in a nice smooth controlled manner.

 

[Holeshot]

Really? That's not exactly how it works for me... a blip is smooth, it's timing it correctly that makes it so...

 

[JoeBar]

What works for one does not always work for everyone. At STAR School, Jason did not blip, Rich did... Some blip, some don't. It also depends on the motorcycle. I blip the throttle on the Monster (a lot of engine breaking) but not on the R1. Whatever works for you is fine with me

 

[Ace of Hearts]

He taught me to downshift as the revs allowed while braking. And if I downshifted a little early, so what? Let the engine rev out a bit. If the rear end starts to chatter or move around too much, feather the clutch.

BINGO!!!!!!!!

Thats what I do. At least that best describes what I THINK I do.

I will be hauling ass, go from full throttle to ZERO throttle, and apply brakes. When slowed down enough I will down shift to match speed/revs. I will do this until I am set up for the turn. At which I stop shifting through the turn. Any gear changes I need to catch up on are done as I exit the turn and try to get back to FULL throtle again.

It sounds to me like this blipping thing is for correcting for down shifting too many gears. When you go down too many you tie up the rear and need to bring the revs back up to keep it from locking up.

 

[Robert R1]

BINGO!!!!!!!!

Thats what I do. At least that best describes what I THINK I do.

I will be hauling ass, go from full throttle to ZERO throttle, and apply brakes. When slowed down enough I will down shift to match speed/revs. I will do this until I am set up for the turn. At which I stop shifting through the turn. Any gear changes I need to catch up on are done as I exit the turn and try to get back to FULL throtle again.

It sounds to me like this blipping thing is for correcting for down shifting too many gears. When you go down too many you tie up the rear and need to bring the revs back up to keep it from locking up.

How do you keep your bike at 8or9,000rpms, brake hard with a shut throttle, pull in the clutch, downshift and release without blipping. Revs drop fast the moment you touch the clutch or get hard on the brakes. Your clutch must have you if have to keep riding/slipping in the whole time to build up revs.

 

[christofu]

How do you keep your bike at 8or9,000rpms, brake hard with a shut throttle, pull in the clutch, downshift and release without blipping. Revs drop fast the moment you touch the clutch or get hard on the brakes. Your clutch must have you if have to keep riding/slipping in the whole time to build up revs.

As soon as you let out the clutch the lower gearing revs the engine right back up. If it doesn't you shifted down too late.

 

[Mencius01]

Resurrecting a thread from the dead, but does anyone do this (downshift and brake with rev-matching) on the street (for practice for instance)?

I have small hands and while I could do this on a scooter in SE Asia I can't seem to get it right on the bikes here ...

 

[theAmazingKickstand]

I have my pointing finger on the brake and rev with the other fingers. easy peasy non issue. Wheres RobertR1?

 

[sckego]

Resurrecting a thread from the dead, but does anyone do this (downshift and brake with rev-matching) on the street (for practice for instance)?

I have small hands and while I could do this on a scooter in SE Asia I can't seem to get it right on the bikes here ...

Yes, frequently. Pointer and middle fingers actuate the brake, while the thumb, ring and pinkie blip the throttle. Yes, it takes practice (and properly adjusted levers) to get good and smooth at it.

 

[flying_hun]

Yes, frequently. Pointer and middle fingers actuate the brake, while the thumb, ring and pinkie blip the throttle. Yes, it takes practice (and properly adjusted levers) to get good and smooth at it.

Yep, same here.

 

[Lovedoc]

I blip/brake by gripping the grip with my thumb and can put all my fingers on the brake if I want. But, I have weird hands, was born in Mississippi, and am afraid to get my chromes counted

 

[Ogg]

+1 here. Keeping your weight off the bars makes it easier. Practice, practice.