Lane Sharing is it time to legislate it?

[CaptCrash]

I believe that California, particularly the CHP can be a model for NATIONAL behavior on this issue. Up here when speaking with local police about lane splitting they simply say: "The State Police consider it Reckless and we follow their lead."

I would offer that is what is going on in California. Why? Because back in the day when I asked California officers about splitting they would say things like: "CHP says traffic isn't moving? 10mph split. Traffic is moving? No more than 10 faster than the traffic is moving--NEVER, ever faster than 35."

Is this Urban Legend? I guess it is, but those were the guidelines I was quoted by cops in the early and mid 80s. Now, being an older dude, they seem awful reasonable. If I were 25 again I might contest that. The governing principle as I have always understood it to be is that the local cops follow the lead of the State. The idea of having clear, concise guidelines issued by the CHP makes excellent sense to me. It clarifies without codifying, it legitimizes without legislating, AND it informs motorists and allows enforcement.

Remember--there is no FIXED definition for "Reckless Driving" it's more like the explanation of what Obscene material is--"I can't explain it, but I know it when I see it."

Unfortunately, as Dan points out, the public sees it too.

 

[Motech]

Lane splitting isn't a right. It's a privilege...

No, it's a liberty. Push the topic at a legislative level and watch that liberty become a legal "privilege" that will first get restricted, then get taken away.

Don't try and fix what ain't broke.

 

[DataDan]

No, it's a liberty. Push the topic at a legislative level and watch that liberty become a legal "privilege" that will first get restricted, then get taken away.

Lane splitting can be banned simply with enactment of a law by majority vote of both houses of the legislature and the governor's signature. Nothing to it. The analogy to the 2nd Amendment in your previous post is absurd.

Given that fact, how would you motivate and educate California motorcyclists--no laws necessary--to improve the practice of lane splitting so as to piss off the public a little less and head off any attempt to ban it?

 

[clutchslip]

Speaking as someone who regularly lane shares at 80+ MPH... I feel significantly more comfortable lane sharing at high speeds than I do in 30MPH freeway traffic. Limiting lane sharing to 40MPH does nothing for safety.

Limiting speed differentials might be beneficial, but again IMO it's a common sense safety thing.

Common sense says that you shouldn't be splitting at 80 mph. Besides it being against the law, it is annoying and dangerous.

YOU are part of the problem! We probably wouldn't be worried about losing this privilege, if not for people like YOU. Please reconsider your riding habits for ALL of us.

Do nothing at all.

Brilliant. Let us bury our heads in the sand and wait for the flogging of our fannies. Doing nothing is surrendering.

Lane splitting can be banned simply with enactment of a law by majority vote of both houses of the legislature and the governor's signature. Nothing to it. The analogy to the 2nd Amendment in your previous post is absurd.

Given that fact, how would you motivate and educate California motorcyclists--no laws necessary--to improve the practice of lane splitting so as to piss off the public a little less and head off any attempt to ban it?

This is the point, here. ^ If we don't do SOMETHING, we will find ourselves without the privilege to lane share. I am sure of it. Be prepared, or be a victim.

 

[Motech]

Lane splitting can be banned simply with enactment of a law by majority vote of both houses of the legislature and the governor's signature. Nothing to it. The analogy to the 2nd Amendment in your previous post is absurd.

It is not absurd, the analogy fits perfectly. The legislature and governor can pass a law requiring California gun owners to register their firearms the same exact way they can ban lane-sharing. Only direct and aggressive opposition by groups like the NRA keep them out of our gun lockers, and only similar actions by groups like the AMA will keep them off our saddles too.

Given that fact, how would you motivate and educate California motorcyclists--no laws necessary--to improve the practice of lane splitting so as to piss off the public a little less and head off any attempt to ban it?

Still want to call your careless assertion a fact?

On your question though, I don't think much more education is really needed. It's already stressed at the DMV licensing level, and "Share The Road" signage is appearing more and more on signs and message boards across the state. What we really will need is stiff and aggressive opposition to any attempts at restricting the practice. Any assistance in applying even limited restrictions by rider lane-sharing advocates is a sign of weakness and surrender.

We already surrender enough of our liberties in so many other aspects of our lives, and I'd hate to see this be another casualty of petty fears run amok.

The question here is, why are you--a rider--supportive of enabling new restrictions?

 

[NorCalBusa]

Methinks Sgt Hurd made a reasonable and well articulated request for no flaming. Who gave you the green light?

Common sense says that you shouldn't be splitting at 80 mph. Besides it being against the law, it is annoying and dangerous.

YOU are part of the problem! We probably wouldn't be worried about losing this privilege, if not for people like YOU. Please reconsider your riding habits for ALL of us.

Brilliant. Let us bury our heads in the sand and wait for the flogging of our fannies. Doing nothing is surrendering.

This is the point, here. ^ If we don't do SOMETHING, we will find ourselves without the privilege to lane share. I am sure of it. Be prepared, or be a victim.

 

[NorCalBusa]

I know what you mean Chris. At lower speeds- that's when the random, but common, "shoot the gap" occurs. At higher speeds, it doesn't happen, so things seem safer in that regard. But if you do get tagged at 80, the consequences are vastly steep.

Speaking as someone who regularly lane shares at 80+ MPH... I feel significantly more comfortable lane sharing at high speeds than I do in 30MPH freeway traffic. Limiting lane sharing to 40MPH does nothing for safety.

Limiting speed differentials might be beneficial, but again IMO it's a common sense safety thing.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Quoting out of context, isn't a quote at all- its not what I wrote.

Brilliant. Let us bury our heads in the sand and wait for the flogging of our fannies. Doing nothing is surrendering.

 

[G12CSR]

One area that is clearly the most contentious is the topic of lane sharing/lane splitting/filtering. There are organizations represented on the committee that would prefer to legislate and ban lane sharing. There are members that want to keep the ability to lane share. In my opinion we are close to a stalemate.

Before any statewide committee that is working to promote motorcycle safety in the state of California allows one word of debate on the matte of lane sharing, I would want to know from the opponents of lane sharing specifically what is it that backs up their claim that lane sharing is dangerous. To allow that statement without challenge is to fall into a trap of assumption.

Can opponents actually point to empirical data to prove that lane sharing is "dangerous". And if so, have they bothered to gather data on how lane sharing alleviates traffic congestion? Then the question would be which data set outweighs the other.

For instance, there are likely accidents every month at our area's bridge toll booths, yet does that override the need to collect tolls? Anyone suggesting a new law should be compelled to provide real evidence that it is needed in the first place.

 

[horsepower]

Get back on track guys; They are asking for ways to educate the public with a consistent and positive message. That's ALL for now.
Let's help our committee voices by thinking focusing on the task at hand.

I will say that even the latest Harry Potter movie has a poor example of lane- sharing going on...Hollywood seems to ALWAYS work in terrible motorcycle traffic scenes which give us such a negative image all around. Wish I could ride backwards while shooting a gun with my brake hand and lane share safely. ..but i digress, now back to it...

 

[Motech]

Get back on track guys; They are asking for ways to educate the public with a consistent and positive message. That's ALL for now.

No it's not all for now. He asked for much more, and the vast majority of our replies are right on target and topic.

There is a desire to provide guidance to law enforcement officers on how to enforce lane sharing so that there is some consistency when doing so. Currently any enforcement is left up to an officer's discretion and opinion on what is safe or prudent.

So where do we go from here? Is it time to push for some type of legislation?
No lane sharing at speeds in excess of 55 MPH?
Lane sharing only allowed between the #1 and #2 lanes?
No speed differential greater than 10 MPH?

The benfit to getting legislation passed is that we could then provide definitive information on lane sharing. The drawback of course is that we start down a course of action that may gather momentum and lead to lane sharing being legislated away.

So I post this question to BARF members. "What do we do? What direction do we go? How do we do it? How can we reach motorcyclists to get them to lane share safely and at the same time educate motorists that it is a legal manuever.

We are open to suggestions, and comments. Who knows, your idea or suggestion may impact the entire state.

I am very interested to hear what folks have to say.

 

[horsepower]

No it's not all for now. He asked for much more, and the vast majority of our replies are right on target and topic.

Touche Motech..since you seem to want to quote other's quotes and debate them based on exact wording- I'll leave you at it.

 

[Motech]

Touche Motech..since you seem to want to quote other's quotes and debate them based on exact wording- I'll leave you at it.

Thank you HP. My viewpoint is pretty clear on this topic, and I value what I've read from many others.

 

[norcalkeith]

While I understand there are problems, I feel it is best left as is.

 

[Gabe]

This has been a most-excellent thread--thanks Silver SVs and Budman for your work on this topic.

In my mind, lane-sharing is a sacred right, one of the things that makes California the best place in the country to ride a motorcycle.

There are some motorcyclists--even here in our paradise of motorcycling--that reject lane splitting. They think it's dangerous or reckless. There are others who don't like the way other riders do it and think it should be regulated so everybody else has to do it the "safe" way. Some of us even quote statistics "proving" it's dangerous (26 deaths out of 2856 over six years is .9 percent, which I would argue is meaningless statistically and hardly a problem) and is therefore a problem that needs to be addressed.

I don't think it's a problem, and I don't think it needs to be regulated, nor do there need to be enforcement guidelines, or any other action taken by any government body. This is a sleeping dog that needs only some Ambien mixed in with its Puppy Chow if it needs anything at all.

I say doing public outreach/education would just make the public angrier. Most of them think it's illegal and that we're just assholes getting away with breaking the law. Fine. They don't know that we have this liberty--a liberty, that car drivers as the vast majority, could strip from us in a second. Adding a few lines into the CMSP/MSF cirriculum and DMV rider's handbook could also have the same effect as legislation (opening the door for more stringent guidelines until it's meaningless), and it just takes one d-bag getting killed following these guidelines to open up the whole legislative can o worms, which we will gag on.

Some of us can split safely at 50, some of us are can't confidently do it all all. That's fine. Ride your own ride, race your own race, but don't impose try to impose your rules on me unless you can point to solid data analysis proving it's better.

 

[infraboy]

While I understand there are problems, I feel it is best left as is.

I'm sure if it's just left as it is, the police can just use current laws to stop someone lane splitting in an unsafe manner, like reckless driving, unsafe lane change, or speeding.

I've been in situations where i'm already cruising at 70-75mph with the flow of traffic only to see someone with balls splitting at 80mph or more. I'd say that is pretty reckless and probably deserves at least a pull over.

I get this weird feeling that making some type of ban on lane splitting and letting drivers know that it's illegal will lead to some weird vigilantism with people purposely trying to cut off bikes that are lane splitting in order to prevent people from "breaking the laws." IF an accident were to occur in this situation the burden is all on the rider who would likely be in some type of pain or injury, with the driver of a car justifying his actions to prevent someone from BREAKING THE LAW.

edit: I've been splitting lanes almost everyday since about a month into my riding a year ago, i've never had ANY real problems with people cutting me off, the key is to go fast enough to be passing people quickly enough, but not so fast that you wont be able to brake to a stop in case someone decides to change lanes. I like to think i'm being safe and prudent, i'll admit i've made a few passes on people that are holding up traffic but only when theres a decent opening.

It's pretty much the same with people who don't yield to faster traffic in the left most lane, as long as they're following the speed limit on the sign, they don't feel the need to move over no matter the traffic conditions or the trail of vehicles behind them, contrary to any common sense or decency.

 

[Burning1]

Common sense says that you shouldn't be splitting at 80 mph. Besides it being against the law, it is annoying and dangerous.

YOU are part of the problem! We probably wouldn't be worried about losing this privilege, if not for people like YOU. Please reconsider your riding habits for ALL of us.

Common sense says that the issue is speed differential, visibility, surprise, and a huge number of other factors that determine whether the pass is polite or impolite

Don't get me wrong... I've made a lot of asshole moves while lane sharing. Pretty much all of them have happened at lower speeds and in dense traffic.

I know what you mean Chris. At lower speeds- that's when the random, but common, "shoot the gap" occurs. At higher speeds, it doesn't happen, so things seem safer in that regard. But if you do get tagged at 80, the consequences are vastly steep.

Well understood, and respected. In general, I assume that lane sharing will eventually get me tagged. The laws in place to prosucute lane sharing (unsafe speed, unsafe lane change, following too close) apply at any speed.

 

[DataDan]

Some of us even quote statistics "proving" it's dangerous (26 deaths out of 2856 over six years is .9 percent, which I would argue is meaningless statistically and hardly a problem) and is therefore a problem that needs to be addressed.

For the record, 26 is the number of media reports I've found statewide, but with sparse news coverage in LA. In the Bay Area (with much better coverage), there have been 13 deaths reported 2004-2009, 3% of the total. Also a small percentage, I acknowledge, but those are 13 dead people who wouldn't be dead if they knew how to split lanes more safely.

I say doing public outreach/education would just make the public angrier. Most of them think it's illegal and that we're just assholes getting away with breaking the law.

From what I read in the news (including the Sac Bee article that is the subject of a recent BARF thread), the public knows it's legal. Some support it, but others do not and see no benefit, so they have no interest in preserving it.

Ride your own ride, race your own race, but don't impose try to impose your rules on me unless you can point to solid data analysis proving it's better.

I've been splitting lanes for 25 years, commuting in both Orange County and the Bay Area. So I do a when I read about all the lane-splitting crashes. Some riders don't understand where the dangers are and how to avoid them. You'll find links to more than 20 BARF threads with first-person accounts of crashes and close calls in this post.


Same question to you I asked someone else: If you did give a shit about the safety of your fellow motorcyclists, how would you motivate and educate them--no laws necessary--to improve the practice of lane splitting?

 

[Underdog]

For the record, 26 is the number of media reports I've found statewide, but with sparse news coverage in LA. In the Bay Area (with much better coverage), there have been 13 deaths reported 2004-2009, 3% of the total. Also a small percentage, I acknowledge, but those are 13 dead people who wouldn't be dead if they knew how to split lanes more safely.

From what I read in the news (including the Sac Bee article that is the subject of a recent BARF thread), the public knows it's legal. Some support it, but others do not and see no benefit, so they have no interest in preserving it.

I've been splitting lanes for 25 years, commuting in both Orange County and the Bay Area. So I do a when I read about all the lane-splitting crashes. Some riders don't understand where the dangers are and how to avoid them. You'll find links to more than 20 BARF threads with first-person accounts of crashes and close calls in this post.

Same question to you I asked before: If you did give a shit about the safety of your fellow motorcyclists, how would you motivate and educate them--no laws necessary--to improve the practice of lane splitting?

Dan, Mathematicians call Statistics the "Whore of Empirical Sciences"-- if lane sharing is SUCH a catastrophic problem (26 incidents), how much is running red lights? I'd like to hear the stats on that; the reason? Everybody does it, and nothing is enforced. I bet there are far more casualties attributed to that code of behavior.

So where exactly is the problem? It's far too easy to get a driving or a riding license in California, or in the US in particular. You have people driving blind-- I've gotten used to people trying to side swipe me regularly. Luckily, I've earned my motorist education in a country where your first bike is topped at 250cc in the first 2 years, and EVERY driver needs to go through refreshment courses every 3 years.

There's no need to raise hell and call splitting dangerous. It is dangerous because riding a bike is more dangerous than sitting in a cage weight 2 tons. You have to educate everyone-- and enforce the laws. We don't enforce the laws and don't educate motorists. Instead- we just inflate the code book.

 

[lunerkid]

There is a push from one side to educate motorists that lane sharing is legal so that the motoring public is aware that its legal and maybe won't become so irritated when they see motorcyclists doing so. The other side thinks that putting out an education campaign promoting that lane sharing is legal may cause more riders to do so and thereby increase the number of collision

I'd personally like some education for motorist that lane splitting is allowed. I love CA since it is the only place to split, but it seems that other people seem to believe it is not legal. I've had people purposely give me less room when traffic is at a stand still and I'd have to stop.

I personally feel that the collisions associated with lane splitting would be mostly due to cars jump lanes quickly thinking it is an empty spot for them.
Not to fully blame motorist, but there are a few motorcyclist who do split a bit to fast. But from personal experience, I typically get the motorist who jumps lanes quickly with less than a second of signaling.